Give me strength....PLEASE!!

This is primarily a vent, but any advice would also be gladly appreciated.

I pride myself on being patient and have great amounts of experience sleep training children and shutting my ears to the cries during a transition period. I keep great lines of communication going with parents so we can work together with their child in all areas of development.

I have 2 problem children right now that literally have me wanting to scratch my eyes out. Child 1 is the one I posted about prior to Xmas when mum dropped the bombshell on me that she was attachment parenting her son. He is in his 3rd week. Wk 1 and 2, W&Th, Wk 3 T,W,Th and then next week he will be here M-Th. His regular hours will be 7:30-4:30 but during these 4 weeks he has been 9-3.

This child doesn't just cry, he absolutely wails. He doesnt even stop if I hold him. He climbs all over me when I hold him still crying and there is nothing I can do to sooth him. Last week I started putting him down for his morning nap within 5 minutes of his arrival. He typically goes off to sleep within 5-10 minutes so yes he is obviously tired but when he wakes after an hour or so, he just picks up where he left off screaming the house down. It is SOOOO loud. I can manage to shut him up temporarily with a cracker in a highchair in front of the tv which I have had to resort to since he just upsets the entire group and its insane trying to calm them all. He will literally screw his face up and cry when I just look at him, thanks kid lol, so at lunch I can't make eye contact with him when I spoon feed him. He goes down for a good 2 hours in the afternoon which is a well needed break from the screaming. He has been getting up earlier than the rest because he is collected earlier and he is only marginally better and it doesn't last long. I have him with his coat and shoes on ready and waiting for mum at pick up. Now lets be clear, this kid is not miserable as in crying his little heart out. There are some tears but its more of an "I'm seriously pissed off" kind of cry/wail/scream. He is 1 on Feb 1st also. Quite simply and obviously this kid just wants his mum. Today at pick up as soon as he was in his mothers arms he had the most wicked smile on his face. I was livid!

He is being attachment parented so sleeps in bed with mum every night, and is not on any kind of routine. He naps at different times, I asked for a weeks detailed schedule to be brought on day one which shows his nap times and duration's along with other things, and he on demand feeds and she has made it no secret that when he wants to breastfeed he just pulls her top down. She has also told me she intends to breastfeed until 2 years. That is entirely up to her as she is his parent after all but when their parenting style effects my day then it becomes my problem.

I know I should just give notice already, but I wanted to give him, and them a chance because you never know he could have transitioned in within a couple of weeks of a good steady routine at my house but this is just unbelievable. Any suggestions on how I get through the day tomorrow?? He is never going to settle in if he just gets put to bed as soon as he comes in, I'm just honestly unable to offer him any kind of satisfactory comfort. I have had criers before but they usually just want to be picked up or have you close by in their line of sight so its much easier to wean them off this kind of attachment but this is a whole other thing. Number 2 child is a whole other issue and I am just positively exhausted right now so will save that for tomorrow. I'm not sure I will even be able to make it through the 2 weeks notice period and stay sane?!:ohmy:

I'm guessing you have talked to the mother about working with you to get a routine going. Is she even trying to do that? If both of you work on that and it can't be done, he probably needs to be looked at. If she doesn't care about a routine, even after you explain to her that a routine is important for the child, cancel the contract, unless you desperately need the money.

As far as trying to soothe him, I've heard of things you can get for babies that make a heartbeat sound. Maybe try one of those, or something that plays a nice soothing music.

I get what you are saying Mike but those things are aimed at babies not 1 year olds. He wants his mother more than most kids as a result of being attachment parented. They rarely transition well into a group setting due to constant physical contact with the parent which at this age is for sure in line with the principles of attachment parenting.

You mentioned that he should probably be looked at Mike? I'm not sure what you mean? He is in a routine here eating and sleeping at set times, that's not the issue. I have had extensive talks with this parent and she would have to discontinue her method of parenting and while I personally think that would be a better thing for the child as a dcp I can not tell her to do that. I am overstepping my boundaries by telling her how to parent. It is our role to work with them and give advice when necessary so I am left in a position where I need to figure out how to deal with him when he is here or get rid of him.

Attachment patenting does not work in group care .... She needs a nanny or to stay home.... She is setting this kid (and you) up for failure..... The fact that she only revealed this information at the last minute tells me she had a hard time getting him into a daycare when being up front. If you can forgo the income I would terminate because you have a responsibility to the other children as well and I would not want my child in care listening to another child shriek for 80% of the day. This is not your failure this is the parents failure. You do not ap if you are going back to work after 1 yr.

The "looked at" is only if the mother is trying to change and he can't. Why I mentioned that is because a friend of mine has 5 children. Her last one just could not be left alone. She had to be help or next to someone all the time until she was almost 3. I also noticed that she appeared to be a slow learner and eventually convinced the mother to have her checked and it was found out that she has a mild learning disability. They said that would cause the need for attachment. I'm not sure if that can be checked with a 1 year old. If the mother wants to keep her home style as is, that's a different story. If she doesn't realise that in the end, it's not healthy for the child, that will leave you with the choice of continuing or cancelling.

I hear ya !
I am also transitioning a 13 month old and he is so clingy that I feel suffocated. As soon as he is not touching me or being held by me - total meltdown as though it is the end of his world.

It is wearing me down and I am in week 3.

Yours sounds much harder considering it is part time and the mom is on a totally different page.

I would probably cut my losses in your case because him transitioning successfully and sanely when mom has him half the time and is giving in to his every want and need makes it hard for him to get used to being 1 of many kids. It is tough when kids are the centre of the universe at home and then come into a group care setting where they have to share the adult and go with the flow.

I am considering giving notice throughout the day -- well ...I fantasize about it but I think I will probably be okay in a few more weeks :) I hope yours will too but I would at least talk to the mom and tell her how hard the adjustment is for her son.

It may be the mom's guilt causing her to do all this attachment parenting and she doesn't realize how much of a shock it is to alternate between one extreme to the other for this guy.

Good luck :( I sympathize

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Originally Posted by Mike

The "looked at" is only if the mother is trying to change and he can't. Why I mentioned that is because a friend of mine has 5 children. Her last one just could not be left alone. She had to be help or next to someone all the time until she was almost 3. I also noticed that she appeared to be a slow learner and eventually convinced the mother to have her checked and it was found out that she has a mild learning disability. They said that would cause the need for attachment. I'm not sure if that can be checked with a 1 year old. If the mother wants to keep her home style as is, that's a different story. If she doesn't realise that in the end, it's not healthy for the child, that will leave you with the choice of continuing or cancelling.

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I see now. There is no testing for 1 year olds and his behaviour isn't without good reason knowing that he is attachment parented explains it completely. A 2-3 yr old and sometimes as early as 18 months can show signs of being on the spectrum and I have cared for a child who very much displayed many signs of autism but it isn't a given that they have it. Children develop at such varied rates and all of a sudden they can catch up which is what I have seen. A 2 or 3 year old who has to be close to their parent all the time makes me think anxiety disorder which is a very different thing than a child who is being attachment parented although I'm sure if things continue this way it is highly likely this could develop in to anxiety if this little boy can not develop the skill set needed to be away from his mother.

Poor child and poor you. Not fair to anyone. Unless the mom is willing to make some changes at home, I don't see group care working out. If you have good communication, I would lay that out for her, let her know what your daily schedule is, and let her make the decision whether or not she wants to prep her child for your daycare. Give it a reasonable time frame to work, maybe even with a pickup option if he is crying for x amount of time, keep her informed, and then be done with it if it doesn't work out.

The fact that he is only there a few days a week makes it even harder to transition him in :( Mom needs to get with your program.

I have never termed a child but I think I would definitely consider terming a child like this. He sorta has 2 strikes against him right off the bat, 1 being part time and the other being AP. The 3rd would be that he has not settled down after 4 weeks of care with you.

If you can afford it, I would term. If you can't, I would have talk with mom and discuss all these concerns and give her a timeline of when you would like to see this child be transitioned. If she chooses to keep AP him than that is fine and by all means her choice but it will also be her choice to have to find a new dcp.

Just to clear up he isn't part time. In my original post I stated that he is in transition which was 2weeks at 2 days, 1 week of 3 days and 1 week of 4 days all with shorter hours 9-3. Next week is the fourth week of settling in and then he goes to M-Th 7:30-4:30 which is full time for me as I am only open M-Th. I was hoping to try to stick with it until he has been here two full regular weeks. I told the mom as I do every parent that I don't think gradual entry works and that's just my opinion based on all my experience. She insisted on this set up and now this just goes to prove that it doesn't work once again and I have explained that to mum...coming for two days and then being home for five results in starting from scratch the next week.

After those two weeks do I seriously endure another two for the notice period? I know what is best for the group which is termination without notice and refund her deposit but she is working so she will be left in a very difficult situation. Just because I don't agree with her parenting style or that her child is a real handful doesn't mean I shouldn't care about the fact that the contract states two weeks notice and although it also says I can terminate without notice, I am a kind person who in her shoes regardless of the cause would be pretty pissed off if I was left without daycare without notice. Any thoughts on how I could handle this? Do I verbally tell the mother now that he has two weeks to settle down otherwise the placement will come to an end? Any other suggestions?

If you are sure you are done with him (and that's perfectly fine!) and you think you can do another 2 weeks than yes, tell her today that she has two weeks left.

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Originally Posted by 5 Little Monkeys

If you are sure you are done with him (and that's perfectly fine!) and you think you can do another 2 weeks than yes, tell her today that she has two weeks left.

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That's not what I said though...maybe I wasn't clear. I want to give him two full weeks as he may settle on the permanent schedule but if he doesn't then it's two additional weeks for his notice period of screaming. I was thinking of telling the mom that he has two weeks to settle otherwise the placement isn't going to work. I'm just a little stuck with how I do that. It's like two weeks notice but if he improves he can stay?!? Do you understand what I mean?

Yes for sure! :) Tell mom today that you are giving him and her 2 weeks and if things improve, great! If not, she will need to find alternate daycare because it just isn't working out at yours.

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Originally Posted by bright sparks

Just to clear up he isn't part time. In my original post I stated that he is in transition which was 2weeks at 2 days, 1 week of 3 days and 1 week of 4 days all with shorter hours 9-3. Next week is the fourth week of settling in and then he goes to M-Th 7:30-4:30 which is full time for me as I am only open M-Th. I was hoping to try to stick with it until he has been here two full regular weeks. I told the mom as I do every parent that I don't think gradual entry works and that's just my opinion based on all my experience. She insisted on this set up and now this just goes to prove that it doesn't work once again and I have explained that to mum...coming for two days and then being home for five results in starting from scratch the next week.

After those two weeks do I seriously endure another two for the notice period? I know what is best for the group which is termination without notice and refund her deposit but she is working so she will be left in a very difficult situation. Just because I don't agree with her parenting style or that her child is a real handful doesn't mean I shouldn't care about the fact that the contract states two weeks notice and although it also says I can terminate without notice, I am a kind person who in her shoes regardless of the cause would be pretty pissed off if I was left without daycare without notice. Any thoughts on how I could handle this? Do I verbally tell the mother now that he has two weeks to settle down otherwise the placement will come to an end? Any other suggestions?

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So I think you need to lay it on the table with the mom. Tell her your concerns. Tell her you are willing to work with her to get him adjusted. Let her know he needs her help to adapt to the group environment. I understand not wanting to put her in a tight spot. She will (hopefully) appreciate that and your honesty. Give her a 2 week probation period. Explain to her that you want to make it work but that it isn't fair to her little guy to continue on the way things are. Tell her what she needs to do to make his transition successful. I would maybe add that you've tried it her way and it is not working. Now it's time to try your way. I think she needs to trust your experience and advice. Tell her you will be open and honest with how things are going. If you feel that improvement is being made, you will extend the probation period. If not, you will terminate at the end of the 2 week probation period. Do you really want to be stuck in the situation with no quick end in sight, especially if things are not improving and he is there full time for a full day? Either way, someone is going to be unhappy if things are not working out.

I don't know if there is a perfect solution for everyone in this scenario. Maybe someone will have a better idea?

I feel for you. It sounds terrible, it really does. I myself raised my babies on attachment parenting, however I always knew I wouldn't put them in daycare. I know for a fact they would have had a very difficult time adjusting. If I were to do it over again there are some things about attachment parenting I would do again but some things just do the kids a big disservice, and I think any parent thinking of putting their child in daycare should just stay away from attachment parenting. I have no advice other than to suggest terminating at this point. It might help mom put things in perspective, and it would save your sanity and the kids. At this point you have to put the groups well being ahead of everything else and start thinking about how the rest of the parents feel about having this screamer around their kids all day.

Just reading your other post,

Yes, it's like giving notice but it's not. It's giving her notice that things need to change. It gives you an out after 2 weeks if he still isn't adjusting.

I agree with the others .... Have a chat with mom and let her know that now he's starting to attend full time you need to see some improvement by the end of the second week in order to continue on. This way she can either work with you to get him adjusted or she can spend the next two weeks sourcing out new care. Either way she is not blindsided.

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Originally Posted by Fun&care

I feel for you. It sounds terrible, it really does. I myself raised my babies on attachment parenting, however I always knew I wouldn't put them in daycare. I know for a fact they would have had a very difficult time adjusting. If I were to do it over again there are some things about attachment parenting I would do again but some things just do the kids a big disservice, and I think any parent thinking of putting their child in daycare should just stay away from attachment parenting. I have no advice other than to suggest terminating at this point. It might help mom put things in perspective, and it would save your sanity and the kids. At this point you have to put the groups well being ahead of everything else and start thinking about how the rest of the parents feel about having this screamer around their kids all day.

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Fun&care...I'm sure you remember my old post about the AP and how she just dropped it on me and it was a very refreshing perspective when you made your comments based on being in both a parents shoes and the providers. I thank you greatly for your insight.

This morning mum showed up 25 minutes late. She did text me at 8:45 to say they were having a bite to eat and heading on over but I didn't expect her to be that late. I asked what time he was up and she said he woke at 8:15. There just isn't any consistency in terms of getting him up at the same time daily so he can make it to daycare on time so his routine isn't off at my place. He apparently had a rough night which could mean anything to be honest. This morning I could not bare to be in the playroom with him so I had already got things set up to do baking with my 2 1/2 yr old dcb and my other 12mth boy is napping. This little guy wouldn't sit quietly on my knee so I could help the 2yr old so I put him in a highchair so he could watch. He screamed for 15 minutes at which point the 2yr old was complaining about the noise so I gave the little guy a cracker which didn't help. 25 minutes of screaming and I have put him to bed. He is for sure tired but I don't think that's the cause of the screaming at all.

I think the 2 weeks notice in the form of probationary period is what I will do tomorrow at pick up. I will let her know that he is not settling and is very upset and screaming, which she already knows. I'll state that while it is hard to transition in as he has been doing I was willing to give it a shot at her request. I will tell her that the next two weeks are full weeks so that can be a probationary period for improvement but if there is no improvement then I will no longer be able to provide care as it isn't fair on her son, the other children or myself.

Well you are a better person than I am! There is no way I would still have him in my care. I have in my contract that the first 2 weeks are my transition period. During that time termination can be immediately or with notice by either party. I have terminated a child once on the 3rd day for constant screaming. He screamed from the second mom dropped off until she picked him up in the middle of nap time because I couldn't take it any longer. He refused to eat because he was screaming. I was already the 2nd daycare, the first one only kept him for 1 day! I realize a child needs time to adjust but if they are that reliant on mom and can't transition after the first 2 weeks then my daycare is not for them (as their parenting styles are too different from my own). I don't have time to deal with it and won't. I have never had another issue with any other infant since then.

My advice is to tell mom it isn't working and give notice! Goodbye!!

I have had screamers before and it is no fun! Just to give you a little hope though, I had one little guy who cried all day ever day for close to 4 weeks...but by the end of 4 weeks he finally settled. I thought about terminating many times...warned the parents...etc. In the end, I am glad I stuck it out because he is 2 now and such a delight and I LOVE his parents. The only thing I can think to suggest is, have you tried putting him in a baby carrier? If he is happy there, it could give you a break from the crying, let him observe the daycare from a secure place, and help him bond with you. I often use a carrier during transition with AP and non-AP babies...for most I find it helpful during that first month or so when they are feeling so insecure.
Obviously, if you have tried everything and nothing works, then termination may be the only way if you cannot find common ground with the parents.

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Originally Posted by bright sparks

Just to clear up he isn't part time. In my original post I stated that he is in transition which was 2weeks at 2 days, 1 week of 3 days and 1 week of 4 days all with shorter hours 9-3. Next week is the fourth week of settling in and then he goes to M-Th 7:30-4:30 which is full time for me as I am only open M-Th. I was hoping to try to stick with it until he has been here two full regular weeks. I told the mom as I do every parent that I don't think gradual entry works and that's just my opinion based on all my experience. She insisted on this set up and now this just goes to prove that it doesn't work once again and I have explained that to mum...coming for two days and then being home for five results in starting from scratch the next week.

After those two weeks do I seriously endure another two for the notice period? I know what is best for the group which is termination without notice and refund her deposit but she is working so she will be left in a very difficult situation. Just because I don't agree with her parenting style or that her child is a real handful doesn't mean I shouldn't care about the fact that the contract states two weeks notice and although it also says I can terminate without notice, I am a kind person who in her shoes regardless of the cause would be pretty pissed off if I was left without daycare without notice. Any thoughts on how I could handle this? Do I verbally tell the mother now that he has two weeks to settle down otherwise the placement will come to an end? Any other suggestions?

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Oh sorry. I didn't realize you were referring to a gradual entry. It sounded like part time:o Egad ! Well....I think you have come up with the best and most fair solution to warn her that you might have to terminate if things don't change. That means things won't be a total shock in case you have to tell her goodbye in two weeks.

Hopefully you can get through it okay.

It sounds like a very disruptive/stressful child at this point.

It kind of boggles my mind that a parent wouldn't choose to make things as easy as possible for their child and would attachment parent and then throw the child into a group setting. Ei yei yei.:no:

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Originally Posted by sunnydays

I have had screamers before and it is no fun! Just to give you a little hope though, I had one little guy who cried all day ever day for close to 4 weeks...but by the end of 4 weeks he finally settled. I thought about terminating many times...warned the parents...etc. In the end, I am glad I stuck it out because he is 2 now and such a delight and I LOVE his parents. The only thing I can think to suggest is, have you tried putting him in a baby carrier? If he is happy there, it could give you a break from the crying, let him observe the daycare from a secure place, and help him bond with you. I often use a carrier during transition with AP and non-AP babies...for most I find it helpful during that first month or so when they are feeling so insecure.
Obviously, if you have tried everything and nothing works, then termination may be the only way if you cannot find common ground with the parents.

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I want to clarify though as I explained in my original post, this child doesn't stop crying if I hold him. He stops instantly and smiles when his mom arrives. I have had new starters cry for as long as 10 weeks but there were things I could do to sooth them whether it be hold them, sit right next to them and play 1 on 1, or even have them sit in a highchair and observe from a distance...I've had two dcks who have been happy in a highchair and then I have gradually distanced myself from them and brought them out in small increments to join the group. This boy is 12mths next week so carrying him around on my back or front isn't good for me physically. Also this parent is still attachment parenting at home so nothing I do is being reinforced so I'm doing all this hardwork to have him settle and be happy and when he goes home all my hard work and effort is undone.

In all honesty I say terminate. Mom needs a reality check and big time!! The next daycare might not be as patient as you have been and terminate him. She might have to go through a few daycare's before she gets the hint. Unfortunately it will be very hard for her little guy but she is the one making it difficult for him!

We are all different, but I use my carrier because it is much easier on my back than carrying in my arms and some little ones are more soothed by that than anything else, especially if that is what they are used to. But, of course, if that is not something you can do, then don't. It is your business and you run it the way you run it. The parent should have discussed this with you before she signed on. It doesn't sound like a very good fit :(

Sounds like you have a good plan, bright sparks - now you just need to make sure you have a bottle of wine on hand for friday night :-).
Good Luck!

Thursday night is my Friday night gravy_train so at least that's something good to look forward too :)

It does make it harder when the child isn't just sad and needing comfort, because that's something you could do (or at least attempt).

My newest didn't really settle in for close to 3-4 weeks, and she's still not great (and it's been 3.5 months) - doesn't nap well or consistently, constantly wants to be held and will occasionally burst into tears when she doesn't get that, will cry at mealtimes if food isn't presented within seconds of bring put in her chair or the entire meal if it's not something she likes.

Honestly I came really close to terminating several times. And had I known that I would still be having these issues this far in, I would have. I think you are making a good decision in giving the two week "probation!" And stick to your guns! If it's not working out, don't be afraid to let him go! You will thank yourself in a few months time!

I say your plan of 2 weeks change or quit is good. The mother will know right up front which way she is going to go and that should be plenty of time to do one or the other. She just needs to make a decision.