How would you handle this dcm?

Ok, I have this dilemma and I'm asking for some feedback. I have a family that has been with me for a few years and are really great. Over the past year, the dcm has had every other Friday off, but still pays the same each week. So, because her schedule is always alternate Fridays off, I will make dr.'s appointments, etc. on those days that I know they won't be here.

Well, this past week I got an email from her, last minute, saying that she needed to bring them for a couple of hours on the Friday, because she has to run into work for a meeting. I had made an dr. appointment for myself weeks before for that day and told her that I was sorry but I had an appointment that day and I couldn't watch them (it was out of town so I wasn't sure when I'd be back). She proceeded to tell be that "wasn't she paying for this day anyway?". I told her that this was her schedule and how I make appointment for those days, etc...
She just thought that because of the situation, she could use me as a drop in centre.

Was I wrong in how I handled it?

I'm thinking unless you had changed her scheduled days , that you owe her the day . She is paying for it . If her schedule has been the same for years , I would have just asked to change your availability , then you know for sure second Fridays you are off , and she knows she can not use you .

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Originally Posted by Secondtimearound

I'm thinking unless you had changed her scheduled days , that you owe her the day . She is paying for it . If her schedule has been the same for years , I would have just asked to change your availability , then you know for sure second Fridays you are off , and she knows she can not use you .

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The thing is that she had never said that she would need these Fridays. I was told that she had them off so she didn't need me those days. She even sends me the schedule for each month confirming that she is off those days. She just decided the day before that she needed the kids to be dropped off for a bit. I had made this specialist appointment weeks before and I wasn't about to cancel it and wait another month or two for another one.
I make appointments for these days so I wouldn't have to tell her and the other daycare parents to find other arrangements.

So you have in her contract , she doesn't require you these days ? Then I say you are right, if her contract says full time , and her schedule is different I would suggest you add a clause that requires notice if she changes her schedule. But I would still think , not necessarily this time , those are her days .

IMO, if she is paying you for the day than you need to be available to watch her children. If you are not available those days than she should not be paying you UNLESS you and her had discussed this and it's in the contract.

I'm assuming you have no other children on these Friday's? Does she know that or did she just assume you had other children and was paying for the day because she pays for the spot?

I have a similar thing with a parent here. Every other day her child is here until naptime. She pays for the full day though. There are times that she asks if he can stay until the end of the day if she has dr's appt's or takes a full day at work (she's a teacher and sometimes picks up sub shifts). She is paying for the full day so I don't feel that it's right for me to say no.

Yup I'm with the others... If she is paying for the day then you need to be available to her.

I don't know who is 'right' or 'wrong', but what I do in the case of appointments is the moment that they are scheduled, I send a mass email to ALL of my parents, regardless if they need care for that day or not, and tell everyone when the appointment is and the time that I will need everyone picked up.

That way, if they need care for that day, they know what time they need to be here and can make arrangements. If they do not need care for that day, they do not bother contacting last minute to ask for me to take the child any later then the stated pick up time.

That being said, I schedule all of my appointments as late as possible, so that I can attempt to provide care for most of the day.

I think at this point you should keep your appointment but apologize for the miscommunication and moving forward come up with a better plan as to whether or not she can use those every other Fridays or not, or if so she needs to give xxxx amount of notice etc.

If the parent is paying for the day then it is hers to use .....if you are not available then you owe her the day in my opinion......

I agree with everyone here. If she is paying for that day then you need to be available for her. If she needs to come and you cannot take her child then you need to reimburse her for the day.

When I book a day off I let ALL parents know. If you booked a day off for an appointment then even if she didn't need care that day she shouldn't be paying you. What about any other kids you have? Were they all charged for the day as well?

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Originally Posted by mattsmom

Ok, I have this dilemma and I'm asking for some feedback. I have a family that has been with me for a few years and are really great. Over the past year, the dcm has had every other Friday off, but still pays the same each week. So, because her schedule is always alternate Fridays off, I will make dr.'s appointments, etc. on those days that I know they won't be here.

Well, this past week I got an email from her, last minute, saying that she needed to bring them for a couple of hours on the Friday, because she has to run into work for a meeting. I had made an dr. appointment for myself weeks before for that day and told her that I was sorry but I had an appointment that day and I couldn't watch them (it was out of town so I wasn't sure when I'd be back). She proceeded to tell be that "wasn't she paying for this day anyway?". I told her that this was her schedule and how I make appointment for those days, etc...
She just thought that because of the situation, she could use me as a drop in centre.

Was I wrong in how I handled it?

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I understand the parent's confusion and I understand your expectations. I think it all comes down to the contract and what you have agreed to in terms of schedule and pay.

If her contract states she pays x amount for her current schedule (including the rotating friday off), then I think you are ok. In other words, her tuition fees are for the schedule she has provided you and if she needs extra days on top of that schedule, then she owes a drop in fee.

If her contract states that she pays x amount for a full time spot (and there is no mention of friday being a rotating off) then I think that you are obligated to have been available.

What's done is done.

I think moving forward, you should clarify with this parent what her schedule is and what her tuition payment is for. They way I would handle it: She is paying for a full time spot (because you will never find another family who only needs every 2nd friday) but her contracted schedule is x, y and z. Therefore, if she does want care on the occasional friday (that is normally off for her), then payment of x amount is due and should be arranged a minimum of 48 hours in advance. I wouldn't cut a deal of a reduced rate b/c she is out one day every few weeks but I would certainly make sure that it is in writing that care is not available to her on those days, except for an extra fee.

It sounds to me (and I could be wrong) that you asked DCM to pay you for a full time spot even though her Friday was going to be rotating.

In that case - the right thing to do would be to let her use the day because technically she has paid for it and it is her spot that you asked her to pay for.

I can totally understand why it would be terrible luck on your part though since you have an appointment already set up.

I agree with everyone who said that maybe this needs to be readdressed with the mom and put into writing very specifically on whether these alternate Fridays are hers to use or not.

Good luck - I hope it all works out tomorrow

What would your policy be had you made this appointment a different day of the week? Would you close but the families still pay? How much notice do you have to give? They same policy would apply to this day. You should give notice of any appointment on the Fridays even if she is not expected to use the day, give notice so she knows that she cannot use the day. If she would have to pay for you to go on a Monday then she would pay for you to go on the Friday. If you typically close with no pay then she would get the day with no pay, even if she wasn't supposed to use the day and it didn't technically impact her.

I would clarify all the above and in the future let her know you booked an appointment on the Friday so she knows the day is not available. if you bring the other kids with you then let her know you planned it for the day she was planning not to use so that you didn't have to close a different day of the week and impact her.

I would think if she pays full fees, then she is entitled to use the day.
Can you get a relative to watch the child for you for a few hours?

I pretty much agree with everyone else about if she pays for the day then it is hers. That being said, if this has been a long term arrangement that she NEVER uses these days then why wouldn't you use that to your advantage and make appointments. I think moving forward there is a pretty easy solution to this and it really is just about good communication.

You are not a drop in service so if she is going to attend the daycare on a Friday that she isn't scheduled to come, paid for or not, there needs to be a minimum amount of notice she gives you to say she will be coming. For example, if she never uses those days and the child is your only one who pays for that day, you would have no activities prepped, no food prepped so I would request 24 hours notice if she intends to attend so you can be prepared for the child. It's not that he can't use the day if she were to tell you at pick up the day before, after all she pays for the day, but without notice you are not prepared for him and if she is only going to sporadically use the days how does she expect you to plan?? This would show the parent that you like to be organized for each day to be able to meet the child's needs without last minute rushing or unnecessary preparation if they aren't to attend that day, and it also gives you 24 hours notice to cancel any appointments you may have made without a financial penalty.....does that make sense or did I ramble?

Yes it is her day as she pays for it, but are you expected to get up in time for opening time for just one kid on the rare off chance they will show up? That is ridiculous. She either needs to show up every week or show you the courtesy of some prior notice so you can plan the day in advance, whether that be food prep, activity prep, or cancelling scheduled appointments. I don't believe you can deny her the day if she paid for it, but you can set some new rules in your contract that work in both parties favour.

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Originally Posted by bright sparks

I pretty much agree with everyone else about if she pays for the day then it is hers. That being said, if this has been a long term arrangement that she NEVER uses these days then why wouldn't you use that to your advantage and make appointments. I think moving forward there is a pretty easy solution to this and it really is just about good communication.

You are not a drop in service so if she is going to attend the daycare on a Friday that she isn't scheduled to come, paid for or not, there needs to be a minimum amount of notice she gives you to say she will be coming. For example, if she never uses those days and the child is your only one who pays for that day, you would have no activities prepped, no food prepped so I would request 24 hours notice if she intends to attend so you can be prepared for the child. It's not that's he can't use the day if she were to tell you at pick up the day before, after all she pays for the day, but without notice you are not prepared for him and if she is only going to sporadically use the days how does she expect you to plan?? This would show the parent that you like to be organized for each day to be able to meet the child's needs without last minute rushing or unnecessary preparation if they aren't to attend that day, and it also gives you 24 hours notice to cancel any appointments you may have made without a financial penalty.....does that make sense or did I ramble?

Yes it is her day as she pays for it, but are you expects to get up I time for opening time for just one kid on the rare off chance they will show up? That is ridiculous. She either needs to show up every week or show you the courtesy of some prior notice so you can plan the day in advance, whether that be food prep, activity prep, or cancelling scheduled appointments.

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And this is exactly how I felt. Her schedule is alternate Fridays off and I don't have any other dck's on Fridays. When her schedule changed to this a year ago, she was the one that offered to pay the full time fee for each week, because the kids were taking up 2 full time spaces regardless if they are here all week or just 4 days, and also if the time came that she would need those Fridays back if her schedule or job position changes.
How am I supposed to plan on having these 2 children on days they are not scheduled to come? The whole point in making the appointments on these days is so I wouldn't have to tell parents that they have to find backup care because I am taking a day off for it.

Do you have other children these days though? Does she know that you don't? If she just assumes that you are open as normal these days (and why wouldn't she when she is paying you for the day) than you can't really blame her for thinking that it would be okay to send the kids.

Just read your above post...if it were me, I wouldn't charge her for the alternating Fridays so that I could have them off. If I accepted money from a parent I would feel that I need to be available if they EVER needed care for that day.

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Originally Posted by 5 Little Monkeys

Do you have other children these days though? Does she know that you don't? If she just assumes that you are open as normal these days (and why wouldn't she when she is paying you for the day) than you can't really blame her for thinking that it would be okay to send the kids.

Just read your above post...if it were me, I wouldn't charge her for the alternating Fridays so that I could have them off. If I accepted money from a parent I would feel that I need to be available if they EVER needed care for that day.

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No, I don't have any other kids these days and she knows that. I told her that she doesn't have to pay for those Fridays but she insisted because, as I said before, she wants to make sure that if the time comes that her job schedule ever did change permenantly, then she could have them back automatically.
I don't find this unusual though, as I have a dcg whose both parents work in an essential service job and they pay for full time even though she ends up being here only 3 or 4 times a week and their schedule is different all the time, with sometimes long hours.

Ok so now I have read everybody's responses and the op has added more information such as these are her only kids on that day so when they are not there on alternate Fridays she has a paid day off..... I agree it all is dependant on what your contract states ... Do you get paid for personal days ? How much notice do you have to give? What if this appt was on a Monday as someone else suggested ? Would she still have had to pay? I understand that booking your appt on this day makes the most sense however the day is still hers to use since she pays for it. If you went with the "must give 24 hours notice if she wants to use it " well she did that 48 actually cause this post was started yesterday and Friday is tomorrow.... You say this is a specialist appt and so it was clearly made months or weeks ago and therefore the 24 hours is kind of usless.... I don't feel she is using you as a drop in centre ...every two weeks she pays you for 10 days of care and only uses 9 .... You get a paid day off every two weeks.... She needs to go to work for a meeting and needs to use her day that she paid for. I'm sorry if I'm not sharing you point of view but I really don't think she's asking too much now if you don't plan in cancelling your appt then I would just say to her " I generally book my appts that cannot be booked on weekends on the Fridays you are not here so that I am not unconvineceing you .... This is a specialist appt that I booked many months ago unfortunately I cannot cancel it so I will refund you one days fees. When you make the next payment deduct one day .... I'm terribly sorry" But I would be prepare for her to find new care cause she will be miffed .... I don't believe it's about the money I believe it's about the fact she has secured a full time spot and even though she doesn't use every other Friday she knows its there in case ..... But actually its not

For myself I would just reimburse her for the one day that you were unavailable. I would talk to her about it and explain that because you have no kids and still technically open (being paid) that you can take her child providing you receive 24 hours notice to change any plans may have made and that she runs the risk of you being closed on those days depending on what plans you have made and if you do refuse to take the children that you will reimburse her for that day.

As a parent if I was paying for a full time spot I would expect to be able to use the spot when/if I needed it. I have a family that attends my daycare that had a similar issue with her previous daycare as well. She asked to keep her son there for an afternoon that he wasn't usually there and the provider said no that she had errands to run. The mom ended up pulling her son out and coming to my daycare. Her thought was she isn't paying her to run around and do errands (she was paying for a full-time spot).

I am available to all of my parents when I am open. If I close I let everyone know and in this case I think you should have let everyone know you were closed on that particular day for an appointment (which you were not able to cancel if anyone needed care) and not accepted payment from anyone for that day regardless if they normally are away and still pay.

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Originally Posted by mattsmom

And this is exactly how I felt. Her schedule is alternate Fridays off and I don't have any other dck's on Fridays. When her schedule changed to this a year ago, she was the one that offered to pay the full time fee for each week, because the kids were taking up 2 full time spaces regardless if they are here all week or just 4 days, and also if the time came that she would need those Fridays back if her schedule or job position changes.
How am I supposed to plan on having these 2 children on days they are not scheduled to come? The whole point in making the appointments on these days is so I wouldn't have to tell parents that they have to find backup care because I am taking a day off for it.

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I get what others are saying about what would happen if you had scheduled the appointment on a Monday.....but that's not what this is about. If comparisons like that are to be made then let's make another one. What would happen if a parent told you they would not be attending on a paid day and that was your only child so you made plans. If they suddenly changed their mind and you had plans, would you just be expected to cancel everything to accommodate them because of their poor planning or communication skills? I don't think so. By them saying they will not be in attendance they are giving you the day off at their expense. They wouldn't like it if their boss said stay home tomorrow and then told them later sorry I changed my mind. I see this as similar. The parent has secured a full time spot on the chance their work schedule changes and this is a smart choice on their part, but after long term regular compliance with the original contract to only attend every other Friday they have agreed to pay for the additional day incase things come up. I think you always have to make yourself available as it is a paid day, so that's where the 24 hours notice would come in, but are you supposed to sit around the entire day at home in case you get a call at 7am or lunchtime for some last minute impromptu work meeting or other reason for the parent to drop their child in?.....no way, that's absolutely ridiculous.

In this case she gave you more than 24hrs notice so she had every right to come and the fact that you had a specialist appointment is just one of those rare occurrences where cancelling to meet your contractual obligation to them isn't possible. I don't think either of you should be annoyed at each other. Instead invest a little time to have an honest conversation on why you schedule appointments when she doesn't bring her kids, explaining as you did on hear that it saves you from inconveniencing multiple families during the week and because for the past year she has not brought her kids on the alternate Friday. I think that this is an easy situation to resolve. I would apologize for any inconvenience and acknowledge that it would probably be best to add an extra clause in the contract to cover how changes in schedule will be handled in the future and that you absolutely respect her need to work and that this is her spot and you will always put that first if she does you the courtesy of letting you know in advance any changes in requirement. I think if you have a friendly, open and honest conversation initially acknowledging her needs followed by an explanation from your stand point, she will likely respect you for it and I see no reason why you can't both move forward in a positive way. It's not like either of you are acting in a way that is to be purposely awkward, it's just a chink in the chain of changing needs and communication.

I have in fact had the exact scenario that bright sparks brought up happen to me .... At the beginning of dec I had a family give me their Xmas care requirement .... There were two days during the Xmas holiday that I was open (I only closed for the three stats ) that I would not have any kids and therefore be able to do something fun with my kids and both days this particular mom texted me in the am and said "we are not going to do what we were originally planning so I am going to bring them in "..... I wasn't closed and she was paying for the day so sucks to be me and my kids .... This Christmas I am taking some personal days because I am sick if working till 430pm on Xmas eve!!

Crayola, I would have done the exact same thing as you. It would suck but I feel that is the only fair thing to do when the parent is paying for the day.

At xmas, I also had paid days off because I technically didn't close but I didn't have children booked to come so they all paid the holiday fee. HOWEVER, had any of them needed care they knew to give me notice and that I would take their child. If I took the day off and officially closed than none of them would have been required to pay me for that day.

I think at this point the best thing to do is like BS said, have an honest conversation with her and if not already, put something in your contract that will prevent this miscommunication in the future. I also agree that she might be ticked off because she has been paying for a day off for you for a year and the one time she wants to bring them in, she was denied. Whether it's right or wrong, she may decide to find another dcp. To make things smoother, I would offer to reimburse her for this day. I would also consider not charging her the 10 days if only 9 days are technically offered. It's up to you though! Good luck :)

So I was thinking some more on this....what exactly does your contract say? If your contract says that you do not charge for days off, than technically she has been paying you 2 days a month when according to the contract she doesn't need to be. Would she have the right to ask for all that money back?