Tragedy at a home daycare in Vaughan, ON

[playfelt]

Everyone who works gets CPP not everyone one gets other government handouts including parents with special needs kids - some of us didn't qualify for anything while others got $10,000 a year and installed a Jacuzzi tub under the guise their child needed it - just saying.

[sunnydays]

I have already embarked on exactly this arguement on this forum some time ago with another member, but just wanted to lend support to Sally here. I agree with everything she has said. I would hazard to guess that Jammies sends her kids to public school, takes them to publicly funded doctors and hospitals when they are sick, drives on roads built and repaired by tax dollars, recieves her child tax credit and does not send it back, etc. Heaven forbid she ever find herself in the unfortunate situation of a relationship turned sour, a cheating husband who takes off and refuses to pay child support...or worse an abusice husband who needs to be fled from. The thing is, we all pay in the end when kids ar enot properly cared for in their early years and do not recieve healthy food, learning opportunities, etc. Is it the kids' fault that their parents are in bad circumstances (whether or not it is their fault)??? When these kids suffer in substandard care because their parents can't afford daycare, and then grow up to become criminals...then what? I am guessing, you will say build more jails...of course...more jails, more police, lock them all up...for which we also pay with our tax dollars. Wouldn't it be simpler and more peaceful and less expensive to help struggling families afford quality care for their kids so they get a good start to life and become contributing members of our society instead of criminals?

[Sandbox Sally]

sunnydays. Thank you. You just said everything I think, but more eloquently.

crayola, yes I run a daycare. I have never been on government assistance, nor have I ever received daycare subsidy. These are hypotheticals, and I see them all the time.

The answer can't always be, "just open a daycare". Some parents are NOT CUT OUT to work with children as a career. That is the plain hard truth. I am sick to death of people being bootstrappy about how other people should live. I pay taxes too. I paid into EI and CPP, neither of which I will likely ever receive. I pay taxes that go toward programs in which I will never participate, but I most certainly don't think that the government should do away with those programs, because I personally don't need them.

Daycare subsidy is no more a handout than Child Tax credits. Give your head a shake. It's ok to take THAT particular government benefit, because "everyone gets it"? I know plenty of people who make little more than we do who do NOT qualify for CTC. I know plenty of people who have two incomes and work 50 hour weeks with university educations who qualify for child care subsidy. It's not a handout. We ALL pay into it. ALL of us. You don't get to say where my tax dollars go. Hope that helps.

[Sandbox Sally]

Some special needs kids DO need jacuzzi tubs. Just saying.

[Crayola kiddies]

Well basically all I was originally saying was that with the current level of social assistance programs out there it seems to encourage young people to have kids because its a meal ticket .... They don't have to work and everything is handed to them free or almost free ... That'll what I was trying to get at .... Not about paving roads and private schools .... But about kids purposely having children to get the subsidies !!!! That's all !!!!! Oh by the way my first husband was abusive too !!!

[Sandbox Sally]

I can't imagine anyone having a child to collect the meagre amount welfare gives a person to exist on.
There are no extras.

And by the way, according to jammies and tea or whatever her name is, we should have picked our mates better, because if we needed help, it's not up to her to help us if we are leaving abusive men. I cannot roll my eyes enough at that way of thinking.

[Crayola kiddies]

I Know two sisters who each had a child they both kicked out the boyfriends. They both receive welfare, subsidized housing, reduced utility costs, free prescriptions, subsidized daycare, they both have cars, they never miss a weekend of partying according to the Facebook photos, they both smoke, and they went to the Dominican a few months ago .... I've only ever been to Florida and I'm more then twice their age. And then they post on Facebook how the government screwed them again by not changing their marital status and they didn't get the added money !!! Really??

[sunnydays]

We all know there are people who abuse the system...any system in fact...that is true. However, what you are saying is that because of those people, we should do away with the help for people who truly need it. I was once a young single parent (I became pregnant while on the pill...my pregnancy was not on purpose and I knew nothing about daycare subsidies or welfare really), was once on welfare, and needed a daycare subsidy as I put myself through university and earned a BA while raising a child alone. If I had not had the help I recieved, I would not be where I am today. I have a degree, I grew a career, I own a beautiful home and now have two more beautiful children and am lucky to have a wonderful man by my side. I have never gone back to welfare since the year I was on it. It helped me get through an extremely tough time and to provide my son with a stable home and high quality daycare while I put myself through school. He has now graduated from high school and will be going to university in the fall. I am still paying my student loans bit by bit. I am very honest, have never cheated the system, have never taken advantage of anything to get something I didn't deserve. If I had not had access to a subsidy for daycare (I still paid a portion), I would definitely not have been able to put myself through school and would actually not have been able to afford going to work either as I would be making minimum wage. Sooooo, I would have had to stay on welfare until my son started school full-time (I lived in BC at the time so that would be 6 years old). And then and would probably have become so demoralized and out of the working world and studying world...I don't know what I would have become or how I could have bettered my life and that of my son. I KNOW my son deserved the life I have given him. I also KNOW other kids deserve the same and their parents deserve a chance to try an better their lives by studying or working and the only way they can do that is by having subsidized daycare. I would rather put my tax dollars there even knowing that some people may abuse the system. It is worth it for those who truly need it (and there are many). All kids deserve the kind of life I was able to give my son because of the availability of daycare subsidy. And do you think it encouraged me to have more kids and sit on my butt? NO! I did not have more kids until 13 years later when I had a solid relationship, solid career and owned a home and was good and ready. And I actually personally know others who, like me, made use of subsidies to better their lives and those of their children. I KNOW my son is growing to be an upright, caring, wonderful member of society who will contribute great things. To say that I should not have had him because I couldn't afford daycare is actually sickening to me.

[Artsand crafts]

I Know two sisters who each had a child they both kicked out the boyfriends. They both receive welfare, subsidized housing, reduced utility costs, free prescriptions, subsidized daycare, they both have cars, they never miss a weekend of partying according to the Facebook photos, they both smoke, and they went to the Dominican a few months ago .... I've only ever been to Florida and I'm more then twice their age. And then they post on Facebook how the government screwed them again by not changing their marital status and they didn't get the added money !!! Really??

I know someone like that, but is a mother and daughter instead. They used to live in a very rough area each one with their own apartment through welfare. She explained that somehow they put both their cases together and now their apartment rent allowance increased. Currently they live together in a nice area, in an ample, bright apartment with a nice view. When we went to visit the daughter to their new apartment she announced she was pregnant with her 3rd child!!... She (I don't know about the mother) also travels to South America once or twice a year according to her Facebook photos and comments. She just came back a few months ago from Ecuador and now she is announcing she is going to Cuba soon... My husband and I sometimes joke that we should just quit our jobs, get divorced and go right after welfare and get together just for the weekends... We haven't been out on vacation since I was pregnant 3 years ago. It even took us 10 year after getting married to decide starting a family because among other things didn't feel we were financially ready... I think the problem is that if there aren't proper rules and a system in place for welfare there will always people that will abuse it... I agree that there are the ones that really need help, but if the government just trust in the "integrity" of people we will just end up hearing a lot of histories like this.... Imagine if an epidemic of this thinking starting to spread... There would not be anyone funding the system and we all end up in extreme poverty, and then we all would have to get back to work if we were lucky after crashing the economy that way.

[Crayola kiddies]

We all know there are people who abuse the system...any system in fact...that is true. However, what you are saying is that because of those people, we should do away with the help for people who truly need it. I was once a young single parent (I became pregnant while on the pill...my pregnancy was not on purpose and I knew nothing about daycare subsidies or welfare really), was once on welfare, and needed a daycare subsidy as I put myself through university and earned a BA while raising a child alone. If I had not had the help I recieved, I would not be where I am today. I have a degree, I grew a career, I own a beautiful home and now have two more beautiful children and am lucky to have a wonderful man by my side. I have never gone back to welfare since the year I was on it. It helped me get through an extremely tough time and to provide my son with a stable home and high quality daycare while I put myself through school. He has now graduated from high school and will be going to university in the fall. I am still paying my student loans bit by bit. I am very honest, have never cheated the system, have never taken advantage of anything to get something I didn't deserve. If I had not had access to a subsidy for daycare (I still paid a portion), I would definitely not have been able to put myself through school and would actually not have been able to afford going to work either as I would be making minimum wage. Sooooo, I would have had to stay on welfare until my son started school full-time (I lived in BC at the time so that would be 6 years old). And then and would probably have become so demoralized and out of the working world and studying world...I don't know what I would have become or how I could have bettered my life and that of my son. I KNOW my son deserved the life I have given him. I also KNOW other kids deserve the same and their parents deserve a chance to try an better their lives by studying or working and the only way they can do that is by having subsidized daycare. I would rather put my tax dollars there even knowing that some people may abuse the system. It is worth it for those who truly need it (and there are many). All kids deserve the kind of life I was able to give my son because of the availability of daycare subsidy. And do you think it encouraged me to have more kids and sit on my butt? NO! I did not have more kids until 13 years later when I had a solid relationship, solid career and owned a home and was good and ready. And I actually personally know others who, like me, made use of subsidies to better their lives and those of their children. I KNOW my son is growing to be an upright, caring, wonderful member of society who will contribute great things. To say that I should not have had him because I couldn't afford daycare is actually sickening to me.

I'm pretty sure I said there should be a limit as some people stay on it for a lifetime