Ontario Caregivers - daycare announcement due today

[Spixie33]

I was just trying to read through the actual bill proposal and it looks like they are proposing that anyone who stays unlicensed would have to disclose that they are unlicensed and have the parents sign off that they are aware that their provider is unlicensed.

It seems kind of like branding unlicensed caregivers with a scarlet letter.

12. (1) Any person who does not hold a licence shall, before providing child care in a circumstance described in paragraph 2 or 4 of subsection 6 (3), or, if relevant, in subsection 6 (4), disclose to the parent of the child, in a manner that may be prescribed, that the person does not hold a licence.

Duty to retain record of disclosure

(2) A person who makes a disclosure in accordance with subsection (1) shall retain a record of the disclosure in a prescribed manner for at least the prescribed time period, or if no time period is prescribed, for at least two years from the date the disclosure is made.

[treeholm]

But even people who are registered with an agency are unlicensed, it is the agency who is licensed, right? So all home daycares would have to sign this, wouldn't they?

[Spixie33]

But even people who are registered with an agency are unlicensed, it is the agency who is licensed, right? So all home daycares would have to sign this, wouldn't they?

My understanding is that the provider themselves is licensed.
I took a daycare course through York Region and they were heavily urging all the providers to get licensed. They said you would have to submit floor plans, fire plans, measurements of your property line and fence, have fire inspector come, etc and then pass the licensing requirements. That is how you would get licensed and then you could go with an agency. I know licensed providers who still take on their own clients though

[Artsand crafts]

My understanding is that the provider themselves is licensed.
I took a daycare course through York Region and they were heavily urging all the providers to get licensed. They said you would have to submit floor plans, fire plans, measurements of your property line and fence, have fire inspector come, etc and then pass the licensing requirements. That is how you would get licensed and then you could go with an agency. I know licensed providers who still take on their own clients though

I worked for an agency and never have to do any of that. I've never had to apply for a license myself since they do not exist for individual providers. I just had to sign an agreement with the agency and they were the ones with a license. You don't even need to have any childhood related education because theoretically they have ECE's supporting and guiding you (of course, it sounds fancy but not quite the reality)

[Spixie33]

I worked for an agency and never have to do any of that. I've never had to apply for a license myself since they do not exist for individual providers. I just had to sign an agreement with the agency and they were the ones with a license. You don't even need to have any childhood related education because theoretically they have ECE's supporting and guiding you (of course, it sounds fancy but not quite the reality)

Hmmm that's strange. The course I took was through York Professional Care. They license home daycares and also have daycare centres in York Region. They say on their website that they make all their providers do the following :
Each York Professional Care & Education Provider has been thoroughly checked and has completed the following steps for approval:
Agency screening – interview for suitability, personal reference checks for competence, home visits for safety, fire inspection and verified police clearance
Minimum 25 hour Provider Orientation Training Course
Child related First Aid and CPR Course
Proof of good health for herself and all members of the household and assurance that they are free of communicable diseases and have proof of a TB test
Compliance with all health and safety standards in her home as set forth by the Fire Department, Public Health Department and Provincial legislation


I knew a sweet girl who was trying to get licensed through them and all the fencing measurements, inspections etc were taking so long that she finally decided to go unlicensed.

[Artsand crafts]

Agency screening – interview for suitability, personal reference checks for competence, home visits for safety, fire inspection and verified police clearance
Minimum 25 hour Provider Orientation Training Course
Child related First Aid and CPR Course
Proof of good health for herself and all members of the household and assurance that they are free of communicable diseases and have proof of a TB test
Compliance with all health and safety standards in her home as set forth by the Fire Department, Public Health Department and Provincial legislation

Yes to the above, but that is done by the agency that holds the license.

Fire inspection: it was a fancy name to push the fire alarm button (and rarely asking about the fire extinguisher in the kitchen) when agency lady came for their monthly visit.

25 hour Provider Orientation Training Course: In my case it was around 1 hour orientation by the agency where a lady read some parts of the manual she left with me. I think you could learn much more from these kind of forums that from that manual.

Compliance with all health and safety standards in her home as set forth by the Fire Department, Public Health Department and Provincial legislation: Agency gave me a 2 or 3 pages safety checklist that covered this. I think most of it is common sense. I went above and beyond the checklist requirements since I am very cautious regarding liability. One mom that needed back up care with other providers from the same agency (when I wasn't available)told me that she felt some places were not safe (and still they were following the agency safety checklist)

[Artsand crafts]

Hmmm that's strange. The course I took was through York Professional Care. They license home daycares and also have daycare centres in York Region. They say on their website that they make all their providers do the following :
Each York Professional Care & Education Provider has been thoroughly checked and has completed the following steps for approval:
Agency screening – interview for suitability, personal reference checks for competence, home visits for safety, fire inspection and verified police clearance
Minimum 25 hour Provider Orientation Training Course
Child related First Aid and CPR Course
Proof of good health for herself and all members of the household and assurance that they are free of communicable diseases and have proof of a TB test
Compliance with all health and safety standards in her home as set forth by the Fire Department, Public Health Department and Provincial legislation


I knew a sweet girl who was trying to get licensed through them and all the fencing measurements, inspections etc were taking so long that she finally decided to go unlicensed.

I checked their webpage and it seems they are a licensed agency and they also own daycare centers. They have 2 sections in their webpage one for parents interested in their daycare centers and another for parents interested in their "licensed" home daycare.

http://yorkprofessionalcareandeducat...alPrograms.php

http://yorkprofessionalcareandeducat...eChildCare.php

[Artsand crafts]

I was just trying to read through the actual bill proposal and it looks like they are proposing that anyone who stays unlicensed would have to disclose that they are unlicensed and have the parents sign off that they are aware that their provider is unlicensed.

It seems kind of like branding unlicensed caregivers with a scarlet letter.

12. (1) Any person who does not hold a licence shall, before providing child care in a circumstance described in paragraph 2 or 4 of subsection 6 (3), or, if relevant, in subsection 6 (4), disclose to the parent of the child, in a manner that may be prescribed, that the person does not hold a licence.

That could be to address what some providers are doing when they call themselves licensed, when they are working for an agency. I have seem several ads of home daycare that claim to be licensed.

I don't have any problem explaining potential clients that I am not licensed (or work for an agency) and the benefits they are getting for me being unlicensed. It has not been an issue so far for the ones who ask for an explanation about the differences and this is a though area for providers since most parents are looking for licensed daycare centers and live-in nannies.

[Spixie33]

That could be to address what some providers are doing when they call themselves licensed, when they are working for an agency. I have seem several ads of home daycare that claim to be licensed.

I don't have any problem explaining potential clients that I am not licensed (or work for an agency) and the benefits they are getting for me being unlicensed. It has not been an issue so far for the ones who ask for an explanation about the differences and this is a though area for providers since most parents are looking for licensed daycare centers and live-in nannies.

What do you tell them are the advantages for having an unlicensed provider?
I have had that question posed to me from a parent once and I blanked out. All I could say was something about how licensing isn't a 247 safety net because inspections only come sporadically.

I know dozens of reasons how unlicensed care benefits me and my business and gives me a lot of freedom in terms of who I take on and what I charge....but what are the benefits to a parent?

[momofnerds]

1. someone mentioned about insurance, I know of 2 companies that will insure up to 5 children. 6 children no way. So someone has to send this out to the goverment, they just don't have insurance for up to 6 kids.

2. so my 15 yr old is taking civics and I was telling her about this bill (she wants me to print it out so they can have a discussion on it) she was telling me all the steps it takes for a bill to pass. And its a long one. So just because it passes the first 3 readings, means that it goes to the next level. Tommorrow I will get her to tell me the whole thing and how the bill passes, but even she said it does take a while.

3. I refuse to licensed. I did it when I first started 10 yrs ago and it was a joke. I refuse to get paid sqaut for my services. And all they did was push to go to their center for play dates so they can see how I interact with the children. So when I went I couldn't believe that they weren't shut down. I think the goverment needs to clean their own house before they come and clean mine.