At the very beginning of the report it lists definitions for terms in the report and under child it mentions the age 13Quote:
Originally Posted by Isawitfirst
“child” means a person who is younger than 13 years old; (“enfant”)
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At the very beginning of the report it lists definitions for terms in the report and under child it mentions the age 13Quote:
Originally Posted by Isawitfirst
“child” means a person who is younger than 13 years old; (“enfant”)
But the bill specifically says for home daycare providers that the maximum is 5 children including their own under the age of 6 not 10 or 13. The bill just states that where the word child is used it is refeeing to a child under 13.Quote:
Originally Posted by playfelt
I spoke with my mom of the 10 year old tonight and she knew nothing about it so was a total shock to her. I promised to send her the pdf by email for her to look at. Timeline is also a big factor in all of this. There will be some that would be over in kids in January but not in February if a child had a birthday. A lot of things say effective immediately but the rules aren't rigidly enforced right away and there are only warnings not fines to help people adjust so we can only hope.
I just can't see it going down asap. They need to give parents time to find alternate care. I wouldn't inform anyone till all the ducks are in a row.
Which means they have removed the privilege of having school kids over age 10 as well as your allowed daycare kids ie 5 kids + any over 10Quote:
Originally Posted by bright sparks
They have also effectively removed most of them anyways because schools are to provide care for those gr 1 and up. The scrambling families will be those going back after mat leave with infants and those with school age kids till more spaces are created. Even though agency care can take one more most homes already have their 2 under 2.
I don't think there is any talk of giving parents time to find alternate care, because the reality is, many parents won't be able to... and when some of us start terminating Jan 6th, it will put all the other parents into a panic as well. What we need is for the parents to panic NOW before it is passed, so they can protest, not just wait until is a done deal and they are terminated.
As a few people have mentioned their concerns about children aged 10 and whether they would have to terminate them, let me clarify what the bill says, I quote...
Children of the provider
(5) For the purposes of counting children at a premises under paragraphs 1 and 2 of subsection (3), a child care provider’s own children who are at the premises shall be counted unless they are six years old or older.
This very clearly translates to me as providers children under 6 are counted.
I can not find any reference to the oldest child we can take on within our 5 cap.
I can't find it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by bright sparks
I understand, although this needs to be clearly defined in the bill versus no mention at all for us to just come to our own conclusions. For those with their own children 6 yrs and older, it at least solves their issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by playfelt
where does it say that this will take effect jan 6 when we don't even know the whole deal. I have read everything and so far everything is just in proposal, there are no dates except that they "want" to try to do this before the end of the year.
Who says we are terminating families as of jan 6? This hasn't even been passed yet ....Quote:
Originally Posted by treeholm
Sorry, January 6th is the day many of us reopen after Christmas holidays. They want to pass this in the Christmas sitting of the legislature so it can take effect by the end of this year. It's a 2013 amendment. Someone posted above that the person with whom they spoke at the ministry said if it passes, it will come into effect immediately with no delay or grandfathering in of existing daycares. Since I'm on vacation, it won't affect me until I re-open on Jan 6, which is when I will have to refuse to admit my one year olds back into care. I'm sure hoping it doesn't come into effect before I go on Christmas vacation! I don't want to terminate anyone a week before Christmas.. so I'm just assuming I can wait to terminate until Jan 6th.
I have made plans to use my energy for greater cause tonight rather than to stress out over this huge mess. I need to sleep but can`t with this whirlwind of unknowns going on in my head so I need to do something with all the info.
I am sitting down with my husband and itemizing exactly where every penny goes to with regards to my daycare and seeing where I can cut costs. It works out well as it is year end too. I am going to create a budget based on only having 3 children and see if I can make it work, through proposing cutting things like organic produce in favour of just conventional whole foods and even possibly getting rid of my minivan which would in turn eliminate extra insurance and loan payment.
I think at this point it is great to have this forum to surmise over all of the goings on, but it could also cause more worry as the more we dig into the unknown the more stressed out we will get which doesn't help anyone. I think it would be a good idea for people to be extremely realistic about their possible future by putting total facts down on paper and consider the realty of our options in our futures of running a viable business in Home daycare.
I do think we need to call our MPPs and ask what they recommend we tell parents. I know in my area, the daycare centres do not have open spots for one year olds. Many parents have heard awful things about wee watch, so they don't want to go there. So, what does the government have planned in terms of where we should send the children that we will be forced to terminate as soon as this takes effect? I think if enough people phone the MPPs, it might dawn on them that the logistics of this proposed legislation is just not going to work. I know one home daycare provider who has decided today to quickly find a place for her own children, terminate the daycare children, and go back to work outside the home. She was full... that means 7 children are suddenly going to have to find daycare spaces immediately... in a small town where she was able to fill her own daycare immediately because there is such a shortage of spaces...
Well it looks like that all 3 levels of government are going to pass this bill. For me my kids are older than 6 and I currently have no dc kids as I just relocated a little over a month ago. I feel horrible for all you providers who have young children who will now count in you numbers.
I have 6 children in care at the moment (my 3 year old daughter is included in this count along with my 5 daycare kids). I have a 5 year old and a 10 year old in school full time. My school aged kids are out of the house from 8:30 until 3:30. Some of my daycare kids get dropped off at 9:00am and leave by 4:30. So I will have an overlap of an hour a day.
If this passes I'm only going to let 1 family go (then I will still have 5 kids total in care during the day, my own 3 year old and 4 daycare kids).
How is the gov't going to enforce situations where the school aged children aren't even home during daycare hours (eg. maybe they have after school programs and don't get home till after 4:30). What if there is some sort of overlap.
How are they going to count this? This will be very hard to enforce.
acually if you read further down it says "if approved" so nothing has been approved. And it says that children under 10 are going to count in numbers. So its also just a newspaper and we all know how one sided newspapers are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teagansmom
I was referring to The Toronto Star article which printed that the NDP "welcomed" the new legislation. Really I also meant to say the 3 major parties. I understand that it has not passed yet, however it would only take the liberals and NDP to pass the bill into law.
Your own children 6 and boer would not count.
The NDP saying the welcomed the bill is really nothing more than politicking on her part in that she knows this is important to the people of Ontario and at the same time is non-committal saying she will read the document before deciding to support it as is - meaning there is still room for improvement/debate in theory. At the same time no party is going to want to be labelled as holding up such "important" legislation.
That under 10 rule is still floating around and mostly I don't think those reporting the news are reading things as closely as we are because it doesn't effect them nor do they understand the system as it is now. Even on a facebook forum I am on they are arguing the 1 under 1, 2 under 2, 3 under 3 rule and messing everyone up. It seems to be falling on deaf ears to please forget what you know now and go read the new report.
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/house-pro...ss=2&locale=en
If you go to the legislature website you can read the debates (hansard) which is basically the word for word of what went on in the chamber - ie the discussion. You can see where the debate was tabled and then scroll down to each section labelled childcare and you can read what each person that spoke read. If we do this daily we should have a better idea of when and how this will pass. The other parties are not simply jumping on the bandwagon yet. That does buy us some time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by playfelt
Thank you for the link! It seems that this still will take a little bit of time based on what has been mentioned, such as:
Quote:
Miss Monique Taylor:
This is an extensive bill, and it is one that we will need to look at very closely. We have a general overview, but we know that the devil is always in the details. New Democrats want to see prompt debate on this bill, and we want to see extensive hearings at committee, to make sure that we’re finally getting it right.
Existing problems in the child care sector just don’t require new legislation; they require commitment to action. This government must act on each and every complaint received about child care in Ontario, and they must ensure that there are enough inspectors to do the job. New legislation won’t save lives if complaints continue to be ignored.
I also look forward to the forthcoming recommendations from the Ombudsman on this matter. I hope that those recommendations, along with a thorough review of the new legislation, can be used to improve child care in Ontario.
Playfelt...again I can't get the link to work...but maybe it is bogged down. I will keep trying. I am wondering how they will actually get the new rules to unlicensed caregivers. I mean, many of us are here and informed...but we all know many many caregivers have no clue that this is happening. Do you think they will use income taxes to determine who is a caregiver and send us all something with the new rules? Of course those who are not reporting their income will be missed...but they are already illegal, so no change there.
I decided to tell my daycare parents and ask them to write letters to oppose this. I told them not to panic as we don't know if or when this will come into effect, but I did tell them that if it passes I will have to let two of the kids go. I am hoping they will write letters. I think we need all the support we can get.
Okay, I got on. And I can also see the the second reading of the act is planned for tomorrow. I will be keeping my eyes on that tomorrow for sure to see how things are looking.
What about the summer and pd days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Mummy
I have read the transcripts of the proceedings, and I've read several newspaper articles. I cannot see mention of the "3 under 3" rule anywhere. The proposed legislation mentions no more than 5 children in an unregulated daycare, or 6 in a regulated daycare. In both situations the daycare provider's children would now be counted, so the "5 plus your own" rule is gone. In both situations, you can have no more than two children under two years of age.
I think that's correct treeholm......just 2 under 2. Again, I THINK. Thank doG for small miracles. The 2 under 2 still sucks, but is better than the other. How's your set up looking? Have to cut anyone?
So ... What I want to know is what we NEED to do. What's the plan to help get our side spoken and heard before this is passed. Are we rallying or what ? Because I really don't get how this new bill is going to save a childs life. Most fatal incidents were in daycares already ''illegal' ... so really this to me is just a political thing. There SHOULD be new regulations and put in place with a PLAN a clear PLAN not just like this. SO what ?? Do we all right to our MP's with statements from our parents ?? Are we going down there what ? This new bill doe nothing but cut throats !
I have written a letter to each of the people in this list (provided by the CCPRN). I have also told my dc parents what is happening and asked them to write letters as well detailing how this will affect them personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by crafty
Please send your stories to:
lsandals.mpp@liberal .ola.org Hon Liz Sandals (Minister of Education)
bbalkissoon.mpp@libe ral.ola.org Bas Balkissoon (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Education)
Jim.Grieve@ontario.c a Jim Grieve (Assistant Deputy Minister, Early Learning Division, Ministry of Education)
rob.leone@pc.ola.org Rob Leone (Conservative Opposition/Education Critic)
tabunsp-qp@ndp.on.ca Peter Tabuns (NDP Opposition/Education Critic)
I think what makes me more mad than anything else is that because of a parents error-being neglectful that now we all have to suffer including parents because they won't have no where to go. I really think we need to go after this parent and sue the pants off of her because she wanted cheap daycare well thats great but now we are all going to lose our incomes because of her.
Crafty great idea, I think we should all do something more drastic then write letters. I'm thinking why all dc providers take a day off and march to city halls, or parliament hill. Perhaps with all the parents having no dc for the day and have to miss work the economy will take a little hit. Maybe all the dc families may join with the children. Just a thought
I would be willing to do it !
The other issue is that in light of the increase in safety enforcement and the massive fines that go with a violation, we really need a specific safety criteria in writing. Otherwise how do we know if we are in violation of a safety issue?
Exactly gravy train, it's hard for most people to read actual acts.....they can be very confusing. How does the gov plan on informing all of us? Knowing how greedy the gov is they may hand out fines right away to make money and also make a point of shutting down "illegal" dc just to prove that their bill was the right thing to do in order to protect children.
I wonder how many providers will have to go with an agency. Currently I would have to lose all but TWO of my daycare kids. I am expecting my 3rd baby in February and all of my own kids will be aged 3 and under so all within the limit of 5. :(
There is no way I can do this with only 2 daycare kids. Maybe with 3 if I go with wee watch, but I am curious if I will even make much money after they take their cut.
My families and my husband all implied the "who's gonna know your not following the rules" suggestion. What do I tell them? "Will you help pay the fine if/when I DO get inspected??" lol
Yes, Teagansmom and I'm sure the enforcers will also have the media on speed dial. Personally, I have a swimming pool and a neighbour with a chip on his shoulders so am especially nervous about the vagueness of the safety code.
Would love some more links to articles in the media today I anyone has them.
You know there will be a huge ripple and backlash when this goes through. Parents are going to be livid with increased rates, trying to find daycare for 2 or more of their children (if they are all under 2 years for eg.) So what's a parent to do? Send 2 or 3 children to different providers in order to follow the 2 under 2, etc?
What I just do not understand, is that every news report I have watched or article I have read, is praising the government for taking decisive action to increase safety. NO ONE has mentioned that there will be a huge shortage of spots for one year olds. My daughter emailed me to say that the media is reporting that there will be MORE spots for children. I told her yes, they are increasing spots in licensed daycares from 5 to 6, so there will be more spots, AS LONG AS your child is two or over... NO one is talking in the media about the fact that it is already tough for one year olds to find spots, so where are they supposed to go? I have a friend just starting her daycare now, as her own mat leave just ended. She is full, with five one year olds, plus her own almost one year old, and a two year old. She took deposits for some of those spots for children to begin in January. If this law passes, she will have to fire FOUR of her families and return those deposits... families who paid her months ago to secure their spot and relax.. they will suddenly be terminated with no notice... I've been shaking my head for two days... no wonder I have a headache.
Yes, I'm glad the three under three thing is not mentioned anywhere. That means that I can probably continue for now. I have a little boy turning two in April, and he comes four days a week. If I juggle him with my grandson, who is three months old, and only comes a couple of times a week when my kids are running errands, I can make this work. But if I had my own little children and had to count them in my numbers now, I'd be toast. I feel so badly for so many care providers, and for so many families. And I just can't believe the media hasn't clued in to this potential crisis!
Would have to be a whole week off by the time we travelled to Toronto and did the rally and stormed the legislature etc with our demands. Not to mention the week off our spouses would need to do childcare for us while we were gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teagansmom