Are they all like this? Will it get better?

I've posted about this before...

I just opened my dayhome this month. My first DCG is 12 months (mature 12 months). She is having a terrible time adjusting. She gets dropped off at 6:15 so wakes up at 5:45 every morning. She was used to waking up at 8. So I think this is part of her behaviour problems.

SO these are the problems I'm having, please tell me if this is all normal:

Hits, bites, stands on toys, climbs, chews EVERYTHING, sticks her fingers so far down her throat she vomits, etc. The more I redirect or tell her to stop the more she misbehaves. For example while on our walks she drags her hands in the snow, now I know this is normal but her arms fold back and I'm afraid of her hurting herself because she almost tips over. Once she even did a faceplant in the snow because of it. I bring her arm and as soon as I let go of her arm, it's back out. I ask again and again but immediately her arm is out. She undertands what I am asking...

I honestly cannot look away for a second. Most of this behaviour occurs when I am prepping breakfast or lunch. Basically if I'm not paying enough attention to her. She is an only child. The whole family lived with the grandparents until recently so I know she's having a hard time being in a multi-child environment where she is not the center of attention anymore.

During storytime, circle time, etc I cannot finish a song/book ever because I am constantly "No A**, please don't do that". It is so disruptive.

This morning she took the VTECH learning laptop and smashed my 10 month old in the head while I was prepping breakfast. My kitchen and living room are open so my eyes are always on her (even when trying to cut fruit, I seriously can't turn away from her).

She has been sick for a week and a half out of the 2 and half weeks she's been with me.

I know that this is hard for her... I am trying to remember that every time she hits or bites my children. BUT OMG it is so hard!!! Right now it is only my children, what happens when I have more DCK's? The parents are going to be so mad to see bite marks and bruises everyday on their children.

I have been doing my best to redirect, teach her soft, gentle. None of that is working. I tried using the fisher price chair to strap her in when she misbehaves. Yesterday I finally brought out the playpen and place her in there for a time out for a minute.

I've had to start segregating the kids while I'm in the kitchen, by a gate.:unsure:

I'm not sure what else to do. Mom says she isn't this way at home.

Are they all like this? Is this normal? Will it get better? My kids are NOT aggressive at all. This is new to me!

Thanks
S

First of all I would hope you are putting her down in her playpen for a nap/rest when she first arrives as some of the behaviours could be because she is overwhelmed due to being tired - that his 3 hours of sleep she is missing out on and if anything is going to bed at the same time or later now that mom only has evenings with her.

Make use of a playpen or play yard for her right beside where you do circletime. Then she is in there to stand/sit and listen - can't touch anyone, can't wander off, has limited playthings so no tossing and disrupting just listening from a confined space. High chair or booster seat with tray on the floor can be used in the same way.

The agressiveness is almost like a defensive thing - instinctively fighting anything or anyone that threatens her and because of her lack of social experience with other kids - anyone in the vicinity is a threat. Keeping her near you either high chair or whatever would probably be a comfort to her than seen as punishment because all she knows is adult company. You will need to teach her how to relate to other children.

And yes a large percentage of them are this way. Just when you get this one settled in and finally coming around you will be ready to add another one year old to the mix.

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Originally Posted by playfelt

First of all I would hope you are putting her down in her playpen for a nap/rest when she first arrives as some of the behaviours could be because she is overwhelmed due to being tired - that his 3 hours of sleep she is missing out on and if anything is going to bed at the same time or later now that mom only has evenings with her.

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Normally once she arrives we snuggle, play until my children wake up, which is shortly after she arrives. I change my kids diapers, get breakfast ready. They eat breakfast then right up to bed she goes by 8-8:15 until 10. She eats a FULL breakfast, she's very hungry when she gets here. Do you think I should just put her right to sleep instead of giving her breakfast first?

If this is the way they all are, I may not make it in this business! When my son was in daycare the provider always said he was great! Now I'm wondering if she just never bothered to tell me LOL.

Has she had a bottle or a drink at least before coming or just gotten out of bed and brought. I probably would hold her and give her a bottle or drink from a cup and then right into bed - ie by 6:30 or so. Then let her sleep till she wants - hopefully around 9ish. Then she gets breakfast ( big snack with dry cereal, toast, fruit and milk) while others have snack. That way too she will be ready to sleep right after lunch for a long afternoon nap.

I certainly would try the nap when she comes to make up for the 5-8 that she is now missing. Over time she will need that less and less or she may continue that and for now still need a nap from 10-11 but give that up over time.

My son was also 12 months when I opened my day home. He also had a very hard time adjusting. It took about 2 months to get him used to sharing his house, mom, toys but we did get there. He was aggressive towards the other kids and throwing temper tantrums. When he did something like pull hair I got down on his level and looked him in the eye and said "We do not pull hair" in my stern "mom voice." For the temper tantrums I put him in a pack in play in a different room and I told him he could come back and play when he was ready to act like a decent human being. The consistancy worked and he is back to being his pleasant, well mannered, well-behaved (for the most part) little boy.

This is what Im thinking - a) mom is lying or b) she hasn't been around enough kids for mom to even know that she is like this!
I agree with what you're saying..she is not used to being in a daycare setting and the fact that she's been there a month but sick for two of the weeks means it's way too eary to expect "normal" behaviour. You're lucky if you have a 2yr old sit for a whole story let alone a one year old! :laugh: Ignore her as long as she's not hurting anyone...she'll come around when she isn't getting your constant attention. Since she's awake so early is she having a morning nap? I would make sure she naps at around 8-9am for about 30-45min...that should help! 5:45am - noon is quite a long stretch without a nap.

Now the biting & hitting isn't allowed - I would also do the playpen thing but it'll take a few days to "kick-in" oh and if you have a lot of free-play she might be bored. Keep her busy with new things and her attention will be focused on that rather than what the other kids are doing/touching.

Yes, I agree with playfelt. I would give her a bottle/snack and put her down in a playpen, maybe even in a main room until everyone else arrives or your kids get up. It's very possible that she might be tired or hungry. I know I am a ROYAL B myself if either of things are going on w me, and I am a full grown woman! LOL

Do you know what time she is going to bed at night? Good luck. This sounds awful!

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Originally Posted by playfelt

Has she had a bottle or a drink at least before coming or just gotten out of bed and brought. I probably would hold her and give her a bottle or drink from a cup and then right into bed - ie by 6:30 or so. Then let her sleep till she wants - hopefully around 9ish. Then she gets breakfast ( big snack with dry cereal, toast, fruit and milk) while others have snack. That way too she will be ready to sleep right after lunch for a long afternoon nap.

I certainly would try the nap when she comes to make up for the 5-8 that she is now missing. Over time she will need that less and less or she may continue that and for now still need a nap from 10-11 but give that up over time.

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I'm not sure if Mom and Dad give her a bottle, it sounds like they wake her up, dress her and get her into the car. I will definitely ask, but she actually goes to sleep with a bottle. I know it's bad... but this was the parents request and I didn't have the heart to say no. I have asked them to work on it though but I don't think they have tried yet.

I am going to try tomorrow putting her down as soon as she gets here. Hopefully she sleeps for a little while. My 10MO old goes down at 9:15 for her nap then at 10 when they both used to wake up I would give them a snack. So it sounds like I'm going to be putting them all to bed at different times and different snack times! They all go back to sleep around 1-1:15 in the afternoon. I am wondering if she will make it from 9 to 1? It sounds like a long time.

I was going to say the same thing regarding the naps .... I had a 14 month old that would arrive at 630 I put her straight to bed and she would sleep 2 1/2 hours the get up and have breakfast and then another 2 1/2 - 3 hour nap after lunch ..... Maybe put her in the high chair with a few cheerios whole you get lunch ready.... And I agree use a Playyard for when she misbehaves... When I first opened my dayhome my own 18 month old was the problem biting and hitting I just kept on him and now he's as good as gold ( almost)

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Originally Posted by Mamma_Mia

You're lucky if you have a 2yr old sit for a whole story let alone a one year old! :laugh: Ignore her as long as she's not hurting anyone...she'll come around when she isn't getting your constant attention.

Now the biting & hitting isn't allowed - I would also do the playpen thing but it'll take a few days to "kick-in" oh and if you have a lot of free-play she might be bored. Keep her busy with new things and her attention will be focused on that rather than what the other kids are doing/touching.

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I don't expect her to sit for circle/story time. I do this in the play area and let her wonder and play. But while she's playing she is disrupting everyone, I still have to stop every 2 seconds to ask her to be nice!

Free play is in the morning when she arrives while I change the other kids diapers and prep breakfast. After breakfast while I clean up and change diapers. Then it's nap time. Diapers again if needed. Snack time. Outdoor Play. Then free time again while I prep lunch. Then again while I clean up lunch. Then it's diaper changes, story time and nap time. Then wake up, diapers, snack, free play/singing and dancing. Does that sound ok?

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Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies

I was going to say the same thing regarding the naps .... I had a 14 month old that would arrive at 630 I put her straight to bed and she would sleep 2 1/2 hours the get up and have breakfast and then another 2 1/2 - 3 hour nap after lunch ..... Maybe put her in the high chair with a few cheerios whole you get lunch ready.... And I agree use a Playyard for when she misbehaves... When I first opened my dayhome my own 18 month old was the problem biting and hitting I just kept on him and now he's as good as gold ( almost)

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I am going to try the high chair while I prep, I think this will help! Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Alphaghetti

Do you know what time she is going to bed at night? Good luck. This sounds awful!

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Honestly I think bedtimes are part of the problem... I don't think they are very consistent. I don't think they see the value in routines.

That is an early start I too would like put her to bed first thing and let her sleep as long as needed - that way your am free for some outside time.

When your hands are busy with the others I would Put her somewhere 'safe' so she cannot hurt herself or others until she masters gentle hand concepts ... Highchair or playpen while you are doing circle for example cause the others need you sometimes too and we have to find balance to meeting everyone's needs ;)

Put her down to nap the second she gets there.

BUT, IMO, that type of behavior (hitting, biting, slapping, making herself vomit) is NOT normal 12 mth old transitioning behaviour. Quite frankly, kids who start here like that are terminated before the end of the first week.

It is one thing to be scared and cry and clingy when you are first introduced to daycare. It is quite another to act out aggressively at that age. Not acceptable at all.

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Originally Posted by Judy Trickett

Put her down to nap the second she gets there.

BUT, IMO, that type of behavior (hitting, biting, slapping, making herself vomit) is NOT normal 12 mth old transitioning behaviour. Quite frankly, kids who start here like that are terminated before the end of the first week.

It is one thing to be scared and cry and clingy when you are first introduced to daycare. It is quite another to act out aggressively at that age. Not acceptable at all.

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I'm kind of happy to hear it is not totally normal behavior, because if all kids start his way, I may go insane... And honestly she doesn't cry nor is clingy so she's showing stress in different ways which I think makes it worse because is it an adjusting issue or is it a personality issue? If it's a personality issue, then termination is the only answer. If it's an adjusting issue, how long will it take? I feel like I need to give her and her family a chance. They are kind people. I would hate to leave them stranded... Daycare is VERY hard to come by in our area. You put your kids on waiting lists while your still pregnant :o

I think being new and inexperienced is really going against me on this one... I wish I knew better how to handle it.

Thank you all for your awesome advice and support, I don't know what I would do without this forum!

Oh dear Olivetree, looks like you got a monster out of the Gate! Don't give up; they are not all like this. I know some days you are going to feel like you need 8 eyes and 10 arms! And with just beginning (I know, I just opened my daycare in August) you don't want to fail that child. I too have a 12 month old child who started in January with similar behaviours. They are old enough to understand a firm 'no' and with consistency it has gotten better (she is still one of my greatest challenges)...but I still confine her to the highchair (with activities) when I know that I'll be busy. Circle time/group activities are all still done when she is sleeping...I have not yet found a way to stop her from being very disruptive when we are focused on an activity (climbing on all of us and the book or activity (I have redirected a hundred times to no avail) , scratching her sister to get her to get up and play with her, crying at top volume when I scold her for this so that we can't continue). Keep in mind too that your children in adapting to your home daycare may be extra sensitive too (I was amazed at some of the behaviours my 2 year old son suddenly displayed). I notice an amazing change in dynamic (for the better) when she and her sister are not here. But to let them go? I just can't somehow. I wish you luck:)

I agree with judy for this one. I had to term a 12 mo because all he did was scream, hit and bite and when I'd put him in the play pen to calm he'd bang his head, and scream until his face was beat red. I ended up terming him only after caring for him for 3 or 4 days. (he would also bite and stratch my husband)

The mom was mad, but I think she got that no dayhome would put up with that and ended up staying home with him for now.

Ya I would not say it is NORMAL as in a very high percentage of kids are that way in infancy - those to me are signs over an overtired child who has been allowed to hit/scream/tantrum to have their needs met ... Infants are cause and effect oriented if it works to get their need met they repeat it of it does NOT they try something else ... all adults need to be sending that poor thing the message GENTLE HANDS and so forth otherwise you are in for challenges as she gets older at brewing that "problem solving strategy" later :(

It shocks me how many times I see parents allowing their infant to hit slap kick at them and they do not DO anything other that give the kid what they wanted ... Seriously regardless of the age that is NOT appropriate behavior!!!!

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Originally Posted by Inspired by Reggio

It shocks me how many times I see parents allowing their infant to hit slap kick at them and they do not DO anything other that give the kid what they wanted ... Seriously regardless of the age that is NOT appropriate behavior!!!!

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Me too! I have a parent whose son (at pickup) full out whacks her across the face and kicks her in the stomach, and she says NOTHING. He doesn't do this with me, as he learned very early on that it wouldn't fly - I taught him without yelling or upsetting him.

It sounds like this child is way over the top in terms of transitioning.
Transitioning usually means crying and being scared to move even 2 inches from your clutches until they feel comfy with the surroundings and get used to routines. Other transitioning things are constantly wanting to be carried and just being unable to play independently for even 30 seconds.

Vomit is where I draw the line every time. If a kid would cry to that point then I would head for the hills. Vomit is just so gross and extreme that it is a red flag

Are there other people who you could interview and give the spot to? This child may take a loooong time to transition and I would be scared that the behaviour might not improve before your trial period is up and then it is harder to get rid of them.

Good luck though. I feel for you !!

wow, don't panic yet... I don't think this is normal and no , they are not all like this.
My advice would be to do the playpen thing and have her nap right away in the morning as well. A tired kid is a problem. Draw a line in the sand and let the parents know they need to help with the bottle thing and by having a regular bed time.
She is like this for a reason. If things don't improve you may have to term in the end.
As you said, the other parents are likely to be even less patien with her hitting and biting.
Good luck and keep up posted!

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Originally Posted by Judy Trickett

Put her down to nap the second she gets there.

BUT, IMO, that type of behavior (hitting, biting, slapping, making herself vomit) is NOT normal 12 mth old transitioning behaviour. Quite frankly, kids who start here like that are terminated before the end of the first week.
It is one thing to be scared and cry and clingy when you are first introduced to daycare. It is quite another to act out aggressively at that age. Not acceptable at all.

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I agree with Judy ~ this is not the 'norm' an I also would put her down for a nap. It might take her a bit to get used to her new routine. This sounds horrible and I've never had any of my daycare kids react this way.

and now that I"ve said that my next one will give me a hard time :laugh:
Let us know how things are going after she adjusts to her morning nap with you. You might just see a different kid

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Originally Posted by Spixie33

It sounds like this child is way over the top in terms of transitioning.
Transitioning usually means crying and being scared to move even 2 inches from your clutches until they feel comfy with the surroundings and get used to routines. Other transitioning things are constantly wanting to be carried and just being unable to play independently for even 30 seconds.

Vomit is where I draw the line every time. If a kid would cry to that point then I would head for the hills. Vomit is just so gross and extreme that it is a red flag

Are there other people who you could interview and give the spot to? This child may take a loooong time to transition and I would be scared that the behaviour might not improve before your trial period is up and then it is harder to get rid of them.

Good luck though. I feel for you !!

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She doesn't cry... Doesn't cling to me... And honestly it has just gotten worse. She did way better her first couple of days here then she's doing now. I guess she realizes that this is permanent.

The vomit disgusts me... Especially the forceful, hands down her throat vomit.

I would have absolutely no problem filling the space. I actually have a wait list for this age. Seriously there is NO childcare available. This is the problem, I feel way too bad to terminate because I KNOW the parents will NOT find childcare! Most waiting lists are 2 years long.

AND... Like you all have warned... these are acquaintances. My husband has to work with the Dad every day. Leaving them stranded would be difficult. So I'm determined to make this work! But not at the expense of my own children. My 10 MO flinches when she goes near her. I can only handle a couple of more bruises on my babe before I give up!

Oh olivetree, what a great start for you! I had insanely problematic children in my first year of care too and I ended up terminating a couple of families. But you know what? I should NOT have taken them on in the first place but I didn't know better at that time. I have had really bad transitioning problems in the 3 years after that, but nothing like with my first few.

So what I'm trying to say is that it DOES GET BETTER! You get more relaxed and learn to spot the red flags at interviews and the children get more relaxed as your experience with keeping them busy and content gets better.

All the other ladies gave you wonderful advice.

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Originally Posted by olivetree

She doesn't cry... Doesn't cling to me... And honestly it has just gotten worse. She did way better her first couple of days here then she's doing now. I guess she realizes that this is permanent.

The vomit disgusts me... Especially the forceful, hands down her throat vomit.

I would have absolutely no problem filling the space. I actually have a wait list for this age. Seriously there is NO childcare available. This is the problem, I feel way too bad to terminate because I KNOW the parents will NOT find childcare! Most waiting lists are 2 years long.

AND... Like you all have warned... these are acquaintances. My husband has to work with the Dad every day. Leaving them stranded would be difficult. So I'm determined to make this work! But not at the expense of my own children. My 10 MO flinches when she goes near her. I can only handle a couple of more bruises on my babe before I give up!

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Yikes - having a personal connection to the parents does make it ten times worse because it makes you worry what they will think and how it will affect the relationship.

I think - honestly though - if I had a 10 month old who ended up with bruises then I would show them to mom and say you have to think of your child first....she should be able to understand that as a mother and apologize profusely and give them 3-4 weeks notice and say also that you are worried about the vomit and that your child may touch it etc. Or tell them you are willing to try another 3 weeks and see if it gets better but after that time you might have no choice but to let them go if things don't get better.

It sounds awful. I feel your pain

So yesterday Dad called in sick so LO wasn't here. Today I tried putting her down as soon as she got here and she's still awake in her crib!! I KNOW she's tired. I'm not sure if I should continue to leave her there so she knows this is now her new nap time or if I should just go get her and try again in a half hour when she normally goes for a nap here. She's not crying, mostly just talking and whining but I feel terrible leaving her in her crib by herself for so long. Although she's a VERY stubborn little girl, if I give in, I'll pay for it! She could probably go on much longer then me LOL!

If she's not crying, just leave her in the crib. Quiet time doesn't have to necessarily be sleep time. Even if she cry's a little that's fine. You have to give it some time, for her to develop a routine, won't happen on the first time in the crib. Good luck.

Thank you, I did leave her, and she ended up falling asleep! We will see how she is after her nap! Hopefully not too aggressive today!

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Originally Posted by playfelt

First of all I would hope you are putting her down in her playpen for a nap/rest when she first arrives as some of the behaviours could be because she is overwhelmed due to being tired - that his 3 hours of sleep she is missing out on and if anything is going to bed at the same time or later now that mom only has evenings with her.

Make use of a playpen or play yard for her right beside where you do circletime. Then she is in there to stand/sit and listen - can't touch anyone, can't wander off, has limited playthings so no tossing and disrupting just listening from a confined space. High chair or booster seat with tray on the floor can be used in the same way.

The agressiveness is almost like a defensive thing - instinctively fighting anything or anyone that threatens her and because of her lack of social experience with other kids - anyone in the vicinity is a threat. Keeping her near you either high chair or whatever would probably be a comfort to her than seen as punishment because all she knows is adult company. You will need to teach her how to relate to other children.

And yes a large percentage of them are this way. Just when you get this one settled in and finally coming around you will be ready to add another one year old to the mix.

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Those are fantastic ideas. I really like the playpen/high-chair idea for whenever you have to get anything done (changing diapers, making food, even circle time, etc). She won't be isolated, but she *will* be contained. I've been really lucky - I've had five daycare kids come and go over the years and NONE of them were anything like that...they all adjusted really well - except for the one who had never been to a daycare before. He was also 12 months old, but he had older school-aged siblings. His issue was not aggression but rather accidentally playing way WAY too rough for preschoolers. Like, football tackling them into the wall every day - yikes!

Horray, olive! I look forward to hearing how the rest of your day with her goes.

Ok, so here's the update:

Friday morning she fell asleep quicker when I put her down first thing in the morning. Grandpa called and picked her up at 1:30 so no afternoon nap. I think this is common. I don't think they cater much to her routine, I'm pretty sure they let her decide nap time and bed time and when it's convenient for them.

So all week I have been putting her down as soon as she gets here. Some days she sleeps for 2 1/2 hours some days only 1 hour. She is still EXHAUSTED! She can't make it to afternoon nap at 12:30. But then she only sleeps 1 hour. Then wakes up exhausted still. This little girl just doesn't want to sleep. Monday Tuesday she was much better. Much less hitting. Wednesday she was terrible, back to hitting, making herself vomit. Today she only slept 1 hour so I know she's going to be grumpy!

I'm having a hard time with the routine. She goes to sleep when she gets here which is when my 2 wake up. Trying to keep them quiet is never easy. So I feed my kids breakfast, she wakes up, I feed her breakfast which is the same time my LO goes back to sleep for 45 mins. Then they have snack when she wakes up. By this time DC girl is so ready to go back to sleep but it's time for a walk, then lunch. I guess I could put her back to sleep instead of the walk but then she's up in time for my 2 to go down for afternoon nap. This leaves me NO time at all to myself. I can't see myself continuing this way, especially since I start at 6!

Please, any suggestions!

My trial period ends tomorrow but I REALLY don't want to leave the parents stranded especially because she is getting a little less aggressive. I just want her to sleep!

Also she goes to sleep with a bottle still.... I think this may be part of the problem, I think she's waking in between sleep cycles and is needed the same sleep association to fall back asleep. She has problems sleeping at home too. She's never learnt to self settle. Parents go to her immediately and rock her back to sleep or give her another bottle.

Can you get the parents to work on some stuff at home ? Consistency is the key! Even for pick up and drop off times always jeep them the same then the child knows ... After lunch I sleep then snack then mom/dad comes.... Kids use milestones throughout the day to know what comes next.....this is why its so important to have consistency ......same as having things done at home the same as at daycare then the child knows if I do "this" then "that" will happen 100% of the time weather at home or at daycare and that will encourage good behaviour and discourage bad behaviour.

I've asked the parents to try and follow a routine on the weekends and to try with a consistent bedtime and all they say is "but it's so hard when she's tired". I understand where they are coming from but believe me I KNOW how hard it is when she's tired LOL! I think tomorrow at pick-up I am going to ask them to stay for a quick chat and explain to them why she needs a routine and consistency. Some children are fine on less sleep, my daughter is 11 months, she wakes at 6 am, naps for 40 mins in the morning and 1 1/2 hours in the afternoon, goes to bed at 7 pm and is HAPPY, all day. She doesn't hit, bite, cry, or make herself vomit. This little girl on the other hand does all these things when she's exhausted, and she gets more sleep then my LO. So some kids can handle less sleep and some need more. This child NEEDS more sleep and NEEDS a strict routine. I am hoping they begin to see this, or I will have to terminate. I find it much too stressful that I can't turn away for 1/2 second while I change a diaper, or wash my hands, or cut up fruit. It's been 4 weeks now, I only have a couple left in me for this!

Ugghh thanks for letting me get that all out :D