Bad start to the day :(

Hi,
So this morning my dcm and her 13 month old come in and dcm is standing in my kitchen talking to me. My 3 year old daughter gets up off the couch to come over to me to let me know she had to go pee, in the meantime the dcg who isn't the steadiest walker walks right into my daughter and falls over but gets right back up as if nothing happened. This has happened a few times before but today when it happened to mom says to me that my daughter needs to say sorry and to watch where she is walking and that she hopes its not happening all the time that basically my daughter does it on purpose. SO NOT TRUE AT ALL :mad: She just wouldn't let up even when i said it was just an accident so I finally said maybe my daughter just doesn't see the dcg cause she isn't always wearing her glasses. Then she finally let up after I said that as she saw I was not happy and she made light of the situation then but I was so shocked over how she reacted I didn't know what to say. She then went on to ask of my daughter and the dcg play welll together. I said they don't really play together yet as the dcg is only 13 months and my daughter is 3 so they kind of play side by side. Then she proceeds to tell me that my daughter is introverted and maybe doesn't know how to play with kids and maybe she would liek it if she could teach the dcg how to play with toys and maybe that would make her happier. That totally offended me :cursing: and I just didn't know how to respond to it so I kind of just shrugged it off and she went off to work all happy and like everything was ok after telling me that I had asked for open communication so she felt she needed to say all that. Yes I ask for open communication about your child, not mine :mad: This child only comes one day a week, two days a week starting in January. The dcm also printed off her own daily reports for me to fill out because she didn't like mine I guess :huh:

Any advice??

Ya ....NEXT .....

Thanks Crayola, your response made me smile :) I needed that!

This woman does not respect you! She is insulting your intelligence, parenting skills and is telling you how to do your job. Because you kept silent, she will continue this type of "open communication" unless you set her straight regarding boundries. IMO I would just replace her.

I agree with mimi. Replace her. People like this are on some kind of power trip. Even if you speak up, there is still a good possibility that she won't get the point.

How would you go about writing a termination letter when its because of the parents and not the child??

Ok haha ..... I'll be a little less blunt .... There is no reason for this parent to be in your kitchen in the first place ....parent should walk in and take the outdoor wear off the child give them a hug and a kiss and leave ....this is not a social visit .... I have a gate at the entrance to my daycare and parents stay on their side. She has seriously over stepped her boundaries and I would rectify it today and if putting a gate up is not an option then i would be at the door when she arrives from now on blocking the way so she can't get past you. She will get the hint soon cause otherwise this will get worse and soon you will have to deal with it twice a week instead of just once a week and you will begin to dread the days she is in attendance.

I regret to inform you that due to a general air of disrespect towards myself and my business I will no longer be able to provide care for xxxxxx. The last date of available care will be xxxxx.

Regards
The Queen

Make sure you give the proper amount notice as stated in your policy book and after you receive your fees for that period(assuming you receive fees in advance of care). Always speak to the parent and explain that you are terminating and why and then give them a letter saying "this is the writen notice for your records"

Wow. This woman is straight up rude. How dare she tell you how to parent your child in your home, let alone how to run your daycare. I would have been furious and would have asked her to leave.

I'm with Alpha....get out of my house! I have it in my contract that any disrespect of me, my children, my home etc. by a parent or child is grounds for immediate termination! Sorry you were treated like that!! Where do these wing nuts come from?!?!?!

Thanks everyone, I should have gone with my gut instinct about this one from the beginning :(

It's always easy to look back and say we should have seen it coming....sometimes a nasty one slips by!! She has shown you her true colours, now you can show her the door ha ha!!

Crayola has it spot on and her notice letter..it is brief and to the point which is al it needs to be. In my contract, this would be grounds for immediate termination with no notice and forfeiting the deposit. To be so upfront and clearly okay about speaking to you in that way is not just a little disrespect but a huge amount. Also to dare to tell you how to parent your child and persistantly go on at you in that manner, I would have been fuming and would have struggled to keep professional about it as she is clearly a huge ass.

I am afraid she will cause a huge scene when I give her the termination letter at pick up...would you email it to her tomorrow instead (dcg only comes Thursdays currently)??

This was discussed in another thread today regarding email vs. Slipping a letter in the bag vs. Face to face ........ We run our own businesses and we need to handle things as such ... Face to face calmly explain what happened this morning and how it is unacceptable and that you feel a line has been crossed and regretfully you are terminating care. Make yourself a point form note so that you don't forget the issues you want to touch on ... And have a letter ready to give her. She can stamp her feet all she likes but in the end it is what it is. Don't raise your voice, don't argue with her and if she tries to argue with you just say "I'm sorry I've made my decision" if there are other children present and she is acting like one of them just say " unfortunately I am not able to continue this discussion in this fashion once you've had a chance to think about it and you want to discuss it later I will be home this evening but the termination stands. Good night"

I would definitely be terminating!! Wow, some people!!

I agree with Crayola except it would not be up for discussion. There is nothing to discuss so I wouldn't offer a time later (your personal time) to talk about what has already been decided. If you have d/c children about when you hand her the term letter tell her straight she must leave as the children need your attention not her.

Well...I see this a bit differently. If this is the only issue with this client, I would not be terminating without first at least trying to solve the problem. Instead, I would tell the parent exactly what you are feeling in a professional way. Tell her calmly that you did not like the way she had spoken to you and explain exactly the reasons. If you stay calm and talk to her politely, you may find that she just didn't realize she was overstepping her boundaries. At least give her the chance to redeem herself in my opinon before jumping to termination over one incident.

The part that would piss me off the most is how she dared to suggest that your daughter would be "happier" if you parented her the "right" way. Um,no. She'd be GONE, that was beyond rude!

Oh my, at the very least a warning letter is in order! How rude! Chin up, be strong, business like and hopefully you can cut the woman off quickly if she ever speaks to you like that again telling her that you appreciate the thought, but you know what you are doing.

I had the termination letter ready for pick up and I chickened out, I didn't want a confrontation seeing how she was so rude to me this morning :( Now I am kicking myself for not doing it and not sure what to do now :(

Aw, don't beat yourself up. You will know when it's the last straw and you will do it.

Take the evening and give it a good think. We offered our suggestions, but of course you need to do what you think is best. :)

Just looking for an update! :)

Well.....It didn't go so well but I am glad it is over now. I decided Thursday night that I couldn't wait any longer as the dcg only comes once a week so I called the dcm and explained to her that I needed to terminate and why and how I felt, etc. She became "psycho mom" at that point and just kept saying well your daughter pushed my daughter and she needs to learn to not be a bully, etc....I told her that the decision was final and she had two weeks notice as per my contract. She told me she would not be returning and picking her stuff up at 4:30pm tomorrow. I told her if I wasn't home it would be on my porch (as it was just a grocery bag of clothes and diapers). I left a copy of the termination letter in her bag as well. I didn't want a face to face confrontation with her with no witnesses around and my girls home so I left the stuff on the porch. At 4:30 the doorbell rang and it was her husband. I didn't answer and he rang it again, then picked her bag up and left. He sat in his car for 5 minutes in my driveway before leaving, not sure why. At least its over now and I can move on...hope I don't run into another parent like that anymore :ohmy:

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice :)

Good for you mommyof2, I am sure you are feeling great relief and are happy you stood up for yourself:flower:

Honestly from a parents perspective I would NEVER chose a child care provider who had small children of her own.

Parents can be very protective of their own child and providers with yong kids in the mix are especially vulnerable to seeing things from their child's point of view only.

NOT saying that is the case in this situation but just saying as a parent I would go out of my way to avoid this type of situation for this very reason.

In this case, the provider explains her child's actions as accidental yet the daycare parent sees it as deliberate. I wasn't there so I can't say what really happened but avoiding providers with young ones at home eliminates this kind of problem at all.

Plus, this mom may not have been trying to be rude but helpful instead or maybe just offering her opinion and the provider took it as an insult or as meaness aimed at her child so her (provider) reaction was to protect her child and stick up for her.

Just saying that when it comes to your own children, your views can often be skewed by the fact that they are yours.

Ah yes, us caregivers with young children are soooo negligent to the other children in our care. LOL. Did you not read her post?? It's one thing to come to your child's caregiver with your concerns, and talk in a respectful manner, but to stand their and criticize your parenting style and call your toddler a Bully is out of line no matter who you think you are. I would respond the exact same way if it had been another unrelated child in my care.

OP, I'm so glad this is over for you!! That kind of stress is definitely not needed and a weight must be lifted off your shoulders!

I would have responded in the exact same manner if it were one of my daycare children, not just my child. The way the dcm acted and what she said was totally uncalled for. I am glad its over too Lou, and yes its like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. :) Thanks everyone for your advice and support :flower:

What was more than likely at play here is a mother not aware of what it means to be in family/group care. Children even when warned to be careful of the baby do not go out of their way to knock them over but sometimes they cut too close or breeze by a new walker too fast and the child loses their balance. This is normal in care and normally no one is hurt in the incident. When that mom has a second child there will be times when her older child will "accidentally" get too close to or misjudge distances and the new baby will fall. Then the mother will understand that this is just part of a group of kids together so unless she wants the child protected in a playpen all day it is just a fact we deal with. As the other children get older they get better at being aware of what to do around the babies.

Mommyof2princesses, stand strong sweetie! It isn't easy but we have to do what is best for us sometimes and keep our business minds separate from our soft hearts. We can't let people walk all over us. Would a doctor or lawyer or the cable company give people an extra chance if they didn't follow the rules, pay the bills or meet the legal contract requirements?

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Originally Posted by Serendipity

Honestly from a parents perspective I would NEVER chose a child care provider who had small children of her own.

Parents can be very protective of their own child and providers with yong kids in the mix are especially vulnerable to seeing things from their child's point of view only.

NOT saying that is the case in this situation but just saying as a parent I would go out of my way to avoid this type of situation for this very reason.

In this case, the provider explains her child's actions as accidental yet the daycare parent sees it as deliberate. I wasn't there so I can't say what really happened but avoiding providers with young ones at home eliminates this kind of problem at all.

Plus, this mom may not have been trying to be rude but helpful instead or maybe just offering her opinion and the provider took it as an insult or as meaness aimed at her child so her (provider) reaction was to protect her child and stick up for her.

Just saying that when it comes to your own children, your views can often be skewed by the fact that they are yours.

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I find it funny that you said that....every interview I've had has said that they are more comfortable chosing me BECAUSE I DO have a small child of my own. In THEIR words, you're more intune with how things are done now-a-days. You know what the new safety standards are, you wouldn't leave them in a dangerous situation because you're own child is at risk too. etc. (I'm not saying that anyone with adult children doesn't) but I KINDDA see what they mean. I have seen with many other "older" providers (where I'm the age of their children) not know fully the standards re: carseat safety and don't know how to use new products etc. (that's just their neglect...)

Anyways............. your post was interesting since it's 100% the opposite for me.

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Originally Posted by Mamma_Mia

I find it funny that you said that....every interview I've had has said that they are more comfortable chosing me BECAUSE I DO have a small child of my own. In THEIR words, you're more intune with how things are done now-a-days. You know what the new safety standards are, you wouldn't leave them in a dangerous situation because you're own child is at risk too. etc. (I'm not saying that anyone with adult children doesn't) but I KINDDA see what they mean. I have seen with many other "older" providers (where I'm the age of their children) not know fully the standards re: carseat safety and don't know how to use new products etc. (that's just their neglect...)

Anyways............. your post was interesting since it's 100% the opposite for me.

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I agree :) And as a parent I would like a provider who has a small child :)

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Originally Posted by Mamma_Mia

I find it funny that you said that....every interview I've had has said that they are more comfortable chosing me BECAUSE I DO have a small child of my own. In THEIR words, you're more intune with how things are done now-a-days. You know what the new safety standards are, you wouldn't leave them in a dangerous situation because you're own child is at risk too. etc. (I'm not saying that anyone with adult children doesn't) but I KINDDA see what they mean. I have seen with many other "older" providers (where I'm the age of their children) not know fully the standards re: carseat safety and don't know how to use new products etc. (that's just their neglect...)

Anyways............. your post was interesting since it's 100% the opposite for me.

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I can see how it would work BOTH ways but as a parent who brought my children to a provider with her own young children, I had (or rather my kids had) a horrible experience.

The provider ALWAYS stuck up for her own kids, gave them special treats without giving to the DCK's, always let her kids be the one who set the rules and never got in trouble ever. I switched care providers thinking it was just that one particular provider, only to have the same thing happen at the next place. Finally we chose a provider who had kids who just entered elementary school and it was a totally different scenario. It seemed that the provider was able to treat all the kids equally and since none of her kids had to compete with the DCK's the issues we had at the previous two homes, were no longer an issue.

I understand where you are coming from and as a provider myself now, I have had parents both choose me because I do have children although no longer young ones, and I have had parents choose me because I did't have kids the same age as their child(ren). I suppose it is entirely up to what the needs of the family looking for care is and what their experiences were but what I posted was simply based off my own experiences with child care providers who have their own littles at home.

Sometimes as a mom, it is hard to NOT put your child first and NOT let it seem like you are always favoring them versus a dck when a conflict happens. We are always going to be a bit blinded when it comes to our own kids and when mother bear instincts come into play, protecting our own will always be something we have to wrestle with...kwim?

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Originally Posted by Serendipity

I can see how it would work BOTH ways but as a parent who brought my children to a provider with her own young children, I had (or rather my kids had) a horrible experience.

The provider ALWAYS stuck up for her own kids, gave them special treats without giving to the DCK's, always let her kids be the one who set the rules and never got in trouble ever. I switched care providers thinking it was just that one particular provider, only to have the same thing happen at the next place. Finally we chose a provider who had kids who just entered elementary school and it was a totally different scenario. It seemed that the provider was able to treat all the kids equally and since none of her kids had to compete with the DCK's the issues we had at the previous two homes, were no longer an issue.

I understand where you are coming from and as a provider myself now, I have had parents both choose me because I do have children although no longer young ones, and I have had parents choose me because I did't have kids the same age as their child(ren). I suppose it is entirely up to what the needs of the family looking for care is and what their experiences were but what I posted was simply based off my own experiences with child care providers who have their own littles at home.

Sometimes as a mom, it is hard to NOT put your child first and NOT let it seem like you are always favoring them versus a dck when a conflict happens. We are always going to be a bit blinded when it comes to our own kids and when mother bear instincts come into play, protecting our own will always be something we have to wrestle with...kwim?

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Oh! I am sorry you have had such negative experiences with daycare providers that have young children! I guess I too often assume that since I am NOT a certain way, that other providers wouldn't be either!!! Definitely something to keep in mind and look out for. I think I still wouldn't mind the provider having young children but I would watch for signs that there is no favoritism going on.

I don't think you can categorize the standard of care by age/life stage of the care provider. I'm a grandmother, and the people who chose me told me that was a big factor for them. They want their children in this environment knowing I have raised three adult children, and knowing that I have tons of energy and patience for their children since I don't have any of my own. I put everything into my daycare knowing I will not be up at night with my own LOL! Of course, the young Moms I know who are care providers are also excellent, and just have different strengths. I do want to point out though, that just because my own children are in their 20s and 30s, it doesn't mean I haven't had to research current safety standards etc. Any responsible caregiver would do that. The crib my children slept in no longer meets safety standards, and I will have to reluctantly throw it away. My children were all put down on their tummies to make sure they didn't choke; now, we put babies on their backs for naptime. It's just a matter of being diligent and doing the research. I think choosing a caregiver is far more about finding a match between the family and the care provider than about a preconceived notion of whether a young mom or a grandmother is a better provider. I personally believe I am a better provider as a grandmother than I would have been as a young mom because of my higher energy and patience, but I have lots of grandmother friends who think it is just nuts that I'm doing this now!

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Originally Posted by treeholm

I don't think you can categorize the standard of care by age/life stage of the care provider. I'm a grandmother, and the people who chose me told me that was a big factor for them. They want their children in this environment knowing I have raised three adult children, and knowing that I have tons of energy and patience for their children since I don't have any of my own. I put everything into my daycare knowing I will not be up at night with my own LOL! Of course, the young Moms I know who are care providers are also excellent, and just have different strengths. I do want to point out though, that just because my own children are in their 20s and 30s, it doesn't mean I haven't had to research current safety standards etc. Any responsible caregiver would do that. The crib my children slept in no longer meets safety standards, and I will have to reluctantly throw it away. My children were all put down on their tummies to make sure they didn't choke; now, we put babies on their backs for naptime. It's just a matter of being diligent and doing the research. I think choosing a caregiver is far more about finding a match between the family and the care provider than about a preconceived notion of whether a young mom or a grandmother is a better provider. I personally believe I am a better provider as a grandmother than I would have been as a young mom because of my higher energy and patience, but I have lots of grandmother friends who think it is just nuts that I'm doing this now!

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Very well said, treeholm! It doesn't matter the age/life stage of the provider, what matters is that the provider is a fit with their clients. Generalizations do no one any good.

OP, I think you are well clear of this family. Kudos to you for terminating.

I agree with all of the above definitely: best advice (sorry my french) : Tell her to Go ...... !!! Sorry dont say that... my anger is coming out. I am beyond myself that some parents can be like that with daycare providers, merde !!! Don't take that crap and tell her : huh ba-bye now ! Also in my contract that disrespect toward me or my children is out the moment I give the letter and with no refund of deposit !

Agreed Treeholm ~ stereotypes and generalizations do no one any good at all ... a best match is about so many varied things between client and provider than just if they are a parent or not and how old their children are ... I agree that the fact I have no young children of my own is a selling feature for some who feel that indicates i am in this for the long haul and not just while my own are not in school, that yes I might be more well rested and less likely to take time off work and so forth however I am sure there are just as many others who read that on my website and choose not to contact me cause 'having wee ones' is a must have attraction for them.

I have seen what Serendipity is talking about first hand when I worked in centre care ... RECE peer who are awesome 'providers' in a group setting but their 'parenting' did not reflect the same best practice to say the least ... they are not able to put into practice things like consistent behavior and guidance, consistent expectations around resiliency, empathy and equality between kids that they do naturally with kids who are not theirs as a result the centres they worked at had to move them to alternate rooms so they were not working directly with their own children in a 'work setting' ... that does not mean that ALL RECE in a centre setting should not be able to have their children in their own program because many are and were awesome at balancing both roles ... like anything in life it is a SKILL and one needs to hone it and pay attention to their effectiveness at it.

Another reality is that there are two ways to approach having your own kids in your program specially when you are working from home and determining how daycare children should be treated verses how children in their own 'home' should be treated ... many providers do not think if their children as IN a daycare but rather in their home and therefore they are allowed to do things that the daycare children are not cause well it is their HOME and if they want to go up to their room and be alone so be it, if they want to go up to the kitchen and get food on their own so be it and so forth while there are others whose children are expected to follow all the same rules as the daycare children during mama's working hours cause while it is their home the provider feels she is still working so to speak and it is just easier to have everyone doing same thing including her own children .... IMO these are things that clients seeking care should consider and ASK how the providers own children are integrated into the program that way there is no 'bad experiences' cause you can choose someone whose values you share around these scenarios.

Communication is KEY for both parties for sure specially if you've had a bad experience somewhere so you can head off a second one by asking the right questions and so forth ;)

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Originally Posted by treeholm

I don't think you can categorize the standard of care by age/life stage of the care provider. I'm a grandmother, and the people who chose me told me that was a big factor for them. They want their children in this environment knowing I have raised three adult children, and knowing that I have tons of energy and patience for their children since I don't have any of my own. I put everything into my daycare knowing I will not be up at night with my own LOL! Of course, the young Moms I know who are care providers are also excellent, and just have different strengths. I do want to point out though, that just because my own children are in their 20s and 30s, it doesn't mean I haven't had to research current safety standards etc. Any responsible caregiver would do that. The crib my children slept in no longer meets safety standards, and I will have to reluctantly throw it away. My children were all put down on their tummies to make sure they didn't choke; now, we put babies on their backs for naptime. It's just a matter of being diligent and doing the research. I think choosing a caregiver is far more about finding a match between the family and the care provider than about a preconceived notion of whether a young mom or a grandmother is a better provider. I personally believe I am a better provider as a grandmother than I would have been as a young mom because of my higher energy and patience, but I have lots of grandmother friends who think it is just nuts that I'm doing this now!

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:) Like I said I know fully capable providers who do their jobs and the right thing....sadly I know many also who don't. So I agree that I can see both sides to this. I hd to tell a few people that the child they were caring for couldn't be in a FF seat until certian requirements and they pulled out the "my kids didnt even have car seats he/she will be fine comment. So there is a lot good and "bads" out there........that's why it's hard for parents to trust. But we're a good luck bunch anyways :)