Issues with my daughter and a dcb

I have a 4 and a half year old daughter who can be quite a handful. She has temper tantrums, she yells and screams, and speaks rudely sometimes. sometimes she can be mean to the daycare kids. mornings can be quite tough around here. on days like that I try to keep her separated. sometimes she has a hard time getting up, she fights me about what clothes to wear, about her hair brushed and teeth brushed, her breakfast or lunch, etc. I always do something about it, whether it be time out, time in her room, i explain that it's not nice to act like that to our friends, etc. I struggle with her sometimes and I would really appreciate advice on how to nip this in the butt because I really feel like I can't even control my own kid Some times.

Dcmom of a boy I watch before school called me after her son came home from school and she wasn't happy. She says that her son (6 y.o.) told her that my daughter went to tell him a secret and she spit or drooled in his ear. I was mortified. Apparently it happened this morning here while getting ready to go to school and I didn't even know this happened and he didn't tell me. dcmom asked her son if he told me about the incident and he said yes, he did tell me. She asked me if there was any Confusion about the matter :blink: because he was saying the opposite thing and I swore to her I had no idea, he did not tell me because I would have dealt with my daughter at the time without a doubt! Yes was unacceptable behaviour But this was the first I heard of it. I said her son should have told me at the time so I could have dealt with it. There have been a few incidents of conflict between the two kids but nothing over the top.

I apologized again and said i will most definitely be speaking to my daugher but clearly the dcmom was still not happy. i understand that she was upset, don't get me wrOng but i didn't appreciate how the conversation was going, it seemed like she wasn't happy with anything I said. I said the kids all have they own personalitlies and I work with them when issues arise, her own son included. I feel like she kept focusing on my daughter. I don't have any major issues with her son, just minor things like being slow To get ready but nothing behavioural, he is a good kid. I told her I would do the best I could to keep them separate but there is a varying degree of responsibility on both sides and i mentioned a few things that she can talk to her son about. Dcmom wasn't impressed to hear that but I am honest with parents and I tell it like it is in a polite way. The resolution must come from both sides.

I was put Off by the dcmom today, Maybe I am taking it too personally? I don't really think dcmom was out of line but I think maybe her tone in the conversation was and I didn't appreciate the negativity about my daughter.

I obviously wasn't there to hear the conversation you had, but I'm sure the mom didn't appreciate being told everything her child was doing wrong at daycare when she had called you about her child being spit on. Even though it is hard to do, the conversation should have stayed on the matter at hand. It can be hard to not take it personal, but parents gets emotional when it comes to their kids and that parent's anger was understandable (just like your own emotional response is understandable).

As for your daughter's behaviour, it looks like you need to find another form of "currency" when it comes to when she is misbehaving. If time outs are not working, then maybe you need to have some other kind of consequence. I do "either, or" kinds of consequences with my older kids - "Either you _______, or _________".

I also have my daughter "try again" when she says something that I think is bossy or rude - so she either has to say the sentence again in a kinder tone or say something totally different instead. I have modeled this a lot with her so she knows what I mean when I say she needs to "try again". If she continues with the tone, then there is a consequence.

I have dealt with a lot of very difficult kids in the years I spent teaching, and being firm and handing out consequences consistently every time was the only thing that worked. No means no, and I won't be argued with.

A reward chart could also be a tool, you can have a calendar for every day of the week. For each part of the day she earns a stamp if she does well (which is up to you to decide what the looks like). After a certain number of stamps she earns a reward, whatever the both of you decide it should be. This reward doesn't have to something that costs money.

I give my daughter (who is 5.5 years old) lots of independence when it comes to what she wears everyday. I make sure the clothes in her closet are seasonally appropriate and then she gets to wear whatever she wants as long as her body is covered. This prevents most arguments, and if she ever does argue with me about clothes the consequence is either to listen to her mother or all of her dresses are taken away.

I agree with Amanda, be consistent with consequences and don't feel guilty about it. My kids are older, but my oldest son, who is now 18, was what they call today 'spirited'....there were different words for it when I was growing up. I was scared to deal with him, and some days, I didn't even want to get up because I knew it was going to be a day of him challenging me and bugging other kids. I think a lot sprouts from jealousy kids feel when siblings come along, or have daycare kids around....it was exhausting for years and i took him to counselling at age 4 to see if there was something wrong with him and advice on how to deal. Counselor said nothing wrong, he's very difficult, keep doing what you're doing. My husband was working a lot so it fell to me. It peaked around the age your daughter is now. I'd talk endlessly to him about better choices, and would give him time away but he wouldn't stay in his room, so i'd have to lock him in, and then he'd wreck his room whilst there. I was always second guessing myself. He wasn't lacking attention - quite the opposite - he was garnering it all for himself - he just didn't want to share me.... later in his early teens, he was better but could still melt down about stuff and he ended up breaking his own nose when he threw something and it bounced back and hit him there... never saw another tantrum again, and he has a crooked nose now to remind him! that was the best consequence of all! There is hope! but it takes years....my son is now so lovely and ever so helpful to me.... is on his way to becoming a paramedic! keep strong and don't give up like i often felt like doing.... I gave a lot of love and was fair and I didn't give in.

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Originally Posted by AmandaKDT

I obviously wasn't there to hear the conversation you had, but I'm sure the mom didn't appreciate being told everything her child was doing wrong at daycare when she had called you about her child being spit on. Even though it is hard to do, the conversation should have stayed on the matter at hand. It can be hard to not take it personal, but parents gets emotional when it comes to their kids and that parent's anger was understandable (just like your own emotional response is understandable). .

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I appreciate your suggestions and input. You gave me a few things i can try with my daughter.

During the conversation, dcmom asked what we could do to try to resolve conflicts and if there was anything her son needs to work on why I replied that how I did. I kept it to two recommendations (to leave my daughter when she has been separated due to her behaviour to prevent further conflict, and to listen to her when she says she doesn't want to play, same rule as I apply to my son). I didnt go tit for tat with a arms long list of problems with her son because honestly, there are no major issues of concern with him . Dcmom asked how we (meaning both sides) can resolve conflicts and I when i replied I feel like she was put off by my response.

I can totally understand why dcmom was upset. I think it odd though that a parent would take their child's word 100% over their caregivers...in regards to him not telling you and she didn't seem to believe you if I read you post right.

If it were me I would have apologized profusely, and promised to deal with my daughter and she would have to apologize at drop off the next day.

What she did was definitely wrong, but part of me feels that dcmom is more wound up about it than necessary. They are just KIDS. Kids do stupid things, all the time, without considering the impact or consequences of their actions.

I feel for you, because my daughter is difficult too. She thinks she runs the daycare most days. She's come a long way though, she is much more manageable now than she was at the age of three. What works for me too is the " either/or" approach. "Pick up the toys you left out OR you don't get TV time tonight". Ive never found that time outs really worked for her, she is too strong headed so I have to "hit" where it hurts. Find what she really loves and use it against her (it sounds harsh, but it's really the only way!) for my daughter that is TV, iPad time, her favorite toys etc. and don't forget to give her lots of love in between, I feel that angry/ difficult kids need it the most.

In terms of the conversation with dcm, I wasn't there to hear it, but it sounds like she told you what happened, you apologized for it, said you'd speak to your daughter about it, and asked her to encourage her son to tell you about it when it happens so you can deal with it immediately. Aside from that, what else could you have said? Was there something else that she was expecting you to do?

In terms of your daughter's behaviour, I also do what Amanda suggested and have them "try again". So, if my child or one of the daycare children are speaking to me rudely, I'll say "let's try that again" and they know to say it again, but politely without attitude. If it continues, they can go to another room and come back when they are ready to speak nicely. And if she continues to try to engage, ignore the behaviour. She'll soon figure it out.

Another thing I use is "when/then" statements "when you are dressed, then I'll know you are ready to play" or "I'd be happy to answer that question once you've finished getting dressed" etc. In another words, B doesn't happen until A is finished or nothing else happens until what you've asked is done. My daughter missed breakfast the other day because she refused to get dressed. By the time she decided to get dressed, breakfast was finished and all cleaned up. Was she mad? Hell yeah. But did she get dressed the next time right away? Yep.

It's hard, but refuse to be pulled into engaging with her. She's four. She's able to dress herself and do what you ask. You've asked her to get dressed. That's the end of it. By engaging with her (constant reminders/coaching/begging/encouraging etc) you are giving her what she wants - attention. When she sees that she won't get attention from you, the battle will have lost it's purpose and will stop.

I hope that helps. It's hard. Consistency is key and it's something I think we all struggle with sometimes. Good luck!

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the support. If you look at my initial post at 4 am, it was obviously bothering me and only had half a nights sleep. I understand you have to listen to your kids but Fun And Care is right, I did not feel like she believed me And I did feel like like she was very wound up about it. I understand her feelings though because I know that her son was being picked on at school and teachers and principals were involved, and I was in a similar situation with my son too. I can empathize with the feeling when your child is bring picked on but I didn't appreciate being doubted and the subtle sass I was getting.

I understand why day care Mom upset too.

She come to you with issue and likely felt that not being heard but instead her son being blamed for not telling you! I know you not mean that way but it does seem a bit like you saying "well what you expect - I can't deal with things I not know about" rather than just apologizing and asking for some time to take in this new information and absorb it and come up with method to address. You took personally because it your kid, and can understand if client felt you hit back at her child.

I admire day care provider who has own children in business because must be hard to totally remove parent hat and deal totally with all children equally. For me, it not situation I had to deal with but would be easy to be too hard on own kids to avoid accusations of bias or too easy going cutting them slack because home no longer sanctioned family place.

Why you think your daughter behave like this? Is she resent her Mommy not being exclusive to her? Is she annoyed that her home/toys/life is shared with other children who not family, who she not like? Must be hard to have persons she not like in her home. As adult, I not ever have to put up with people I not like in my home so must be really hard for small child.

How long you had day care? Is this always been her life, maybe she getting fed up with it? Or is this fairly new and maybe novelty of lot of children now worn off?

These not really questions to answer just something to think about. I believe your daughter mis-behaving is her objecting to something she not like so maybe if you able to figure out what she's annoyed about, can tweak that situation (or ride it out until phase passes) but would be powerful information for you to have.

If she really fed up with other kids, can then take steps to give her escape once in while, carve out some time to dedicate to her weekend or evening, but something to reassure her that you still just her Mommy and the other kids are just work.

Flower child, thanks for your input too. I appreciate your response too.

I thought the same thing too. I apologized ten times, promised I would speak to my daughter, which I did right away and assured her I would try to avoid situations that cause conflicts and resolve conflicts between the kids. I don't know what else I could have said. it seemed like it didn't matter what I said it really wasn't to make her feel better. I am not going to see them until after the march break so I hope that it has passed and we can start fresh.

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Originally Posted by Suzie_Homemaker

I understand why day care Mom upset too.

She come to you with issue and likely felt that not being heard but instead her son being blamed for not telling you! I know you not mean that way but it does seem a bit like you saying "well what you expect - I can't deal with things I not know about" rather than just apologizing and asking for some time to take in this new information and absorb it and come up with method to address. You took personally because it your kid, and can understand if client felt you hit back at her child.

Yes I do understand and you make a very good point. I can see why she would think that way, if she did.

I admire day care provider who has own children in business because must be hard to totally remove parent hat and deal totally with all children equally. For me, it not situation I had to deal with but would be easy to be too hard on own kids to avoid accusations of bias or too easy going cutting them slack because home no longer sanctioned family place.

Thanks. It is hard to raise kids while Doing home daycare. You do have to keep business separate from family matters and vice versa and it can be hard To separate. you cant fully dedicate your life to your kids but it cant be all about yout daycare kids either. In one way it has been easier since both kids are in school all day because my own kids dont take my focus away from the dckids. Plus its good form them to get away from the dckids and be with different friends at school. I have all evening for my kids and no one else. when you have your own kids in the daycare, it's easy for other parents to suspect bias towards your own kids.

Why you think your daughter behave like this? Is she resent her Mommy not being exclusive to her? Is she annoyed that her home/toys/life is shared with other children who not family, who she not like? Must be hard to have persons she not like in her home. As adult, I not ever have to put up with people I not like in my home so must be really hard for small child.

I think she behaves like this because she wants her own way and doesnt like being told no. She is a a bit bossy and saucy, likes to be the leader and likes to have things her way. It's not that she doesn't like to share, I think she resents having the same people at her house all the time, touching our stuff, dividing my time.

How long you had day care? Is this always been her life, maybe she getting fed up with it? Or is this fairly new and maybe novelty of lot of children now worn off?

I have had my home daycare since she was about a year so almost her whole life. My son is ok with it, he is 7.5 but my daughter is getting fed up with it. the novelty likely has worn off and I think she just wants her house and her things to herself.

These not really questions to answer just something to think about. I believe your daughter mis-behaving is her objecting to something she not like so maybe if you able to figure out what she's annoyed about, can tweak that situation (or ride it out until phase passes) but would be powerful information for you to have.

If she really fed up with other kids, can then take steps to give her escape once in while, carve out some time to dedicate to her weekend or evening, but something to reassure her that you still just her Mommy and the other kids are just work.

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I appreciate your input, you make lots of good points. I wanted to answer because sometimes I feel when I write things out it helps me diffuse my feelings or sort them out. You did ask lots of good questions and I wanted to provide answers and put things in perspective..

There is such a thing as over apologizing and doing so almost makes you guilty. It sounds like you over apologized which put you in a position of seeming guilty.

When she brought it up, all that needed to be said was "i'm sorry, I wasn't aware of this situation I will speak with my child about it, thank you for bringing it to my attention." end of topic. By going on and on about not knowing, their child never told you, your sorry etc...it makes the whole situation seem bigger than it is.

It does sound like your daughter has been acting poorly at times, and that she may have been acting poorly in this situation and yes it needs to be discussed. BUT she is 4, he is 6 and she was being silly. I mean, I am chuckling at his "I have a secret, lean in pssttttt" (or what ever the tongue out spitting sound is) hahahaha that my friends is classic childhood. As adults we use it as a teaching moment that it isn't appropriate but it is silly childhood behavior. Obviously if it is persistent and is being done with a mean streak to it then we need to act even more firmly.

The parents needs to figure out what exactly it is that is bothering them as it likely stems deeper then this incident. In the future you need to be confident, apologize once, note you will take care of it and leave it. If they keep trying to go deeper and put you in a position of weakness end the conversation, a simple..."I'll go speak to her right now" - click. Have you child write an "I'm sorry" note or some other notable apology for the parents to see if you think it'll help them.

Great advice, Lee-Bee!

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Originally Posted by 3rdtimesacharm

Great advice, Lee-Bee!

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I agree. Thank you for that.